Re: Sin Biblia, ¿No había Iglesia?, Católica sí, Protestante no.
Amigo, no cite la Biblia de esa manera, ha demostrado que no tiene ni idea.
¿qué clase de citas tan raras son esas, que no parecen tener ninguna secuencia lógica, con pasajes trarísimos, pero que no defienden nada que usted haya dicho.?
Por Dios estos católicos Romanos me hacen perder un tiempo terrible, ya me pasó con Kal_El y Strauss.
Citan y citan y citan y luego cuando uno rasca un poco y profundiza en vosotros lo único que encuentra uno es superficialidad y una ignorancia impresionantes.
De verdad mereceis ganar los debates por cansar al oponente. Al principio todos prometéis, luego uno cree que está hablando con alguien que conoce, hasta que les da por citar.
Kal_El cita fuents extrañas como Christian Science, Strauss, me citaba a Agustín, pero luego se vió que cortaba las citas para forzarlas a que le apoyen y además que no había leído las obras de Agustín.
Y usted, citando de manera tan extraña me parece que es el peor.
Creo que usted tiene años que no ojea la Biblia...
¡¡Hala, ahí te quedas!
Bonita manera de salir, diciendo ya me cansaron,
Yo te puedo dar una buena referencia de todos los escritos de los padres de la Iglesia se llama New Advent.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
Si te sirve revísala, allí vienen todos los escritos de los padres de la Iglesia más relevantes, por cierto es un Sitio católico. Ya no me creas a mí revisa los escritos de los pares de la Iglesia.
Este es un listado de lo que se ve allí:
Alexander of Alexandria [SAINT]
- Epistles on the Arian Heresy and the Deposition of Arius
Alexander of Lycopolis
- Of the Manicheans
Ambrose (340-397) [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- On the Christian Faith (De fide)
- On the Holy Spirit
- On the Mysteries
- On Repentance
- On the Duties of the Clergy
- Concerning Virgins
- Concerning Widows
- On the Death of Satyrus
- Memorial of Symmachus
- Sermon against Auxentius
- Letters
Aphrahat/Aphraates (c. 280-367)
- Demonstrations
Archelaus
- Acts of the Disputation with the Heresiarch Manes
Aristides the Philosopher
- The Apology
Arnobius
- Against the Heathen
Athanasius [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Against the Heathen
- On the Incarnation of the Word
- Deposition of Arius
- Statement of Faith
- On Luke 10:22 (Matthew 11:27)
- Circular Letter
- Apologia Contra Arianos
- De Decretis
- De Sententia Dionysii
- Vita S. Antoni (Life of St. Anthony)
- Ad Episcopus Aegypti et Libyae
- Apologia ad Constantium
- Apologia de Fuga
- Historia Arianorum
- Four Discourses Against the Arians
- De Synodis
- Tomus ad Antiochenos
- Ad Afros Epistola Synodica
- Historia Acephala
- Letters
Athenagoras
- A Plea for the Christians
- The Resurrection of the Dead
Augustine of Hippo [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Confessions
- Letters
- City of God
- Christian Doctrine
- On the Holy Trinity
- The Enchiridion
- On the Catechising of the Uninstructed
- On Faith and the Creed
- Concerning Faith of Things Not Seen
- On the Profit of Believing
- On the Creed: A Sermon to Catechumens
- On Continence
- On the Good of Marriage
- On Holy Virginity
- On the Good of Widowhood
- On Lying
- To Consentius: Against Lying
- On the Work of Monks
- On Patience
- On Care to be Had For the Dead
- On the Morals of the Catholic Church
- On the Morals of the Manichaeans
- On Two Souls, Against the Manichaeans
- Acts or Disputation Against Fortunatus the Manichaean
- Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental
- Reply to Faustus the Manichaean
- Concerning the Nature of Good, Against the Manichaeans
- On Baptism, Against the Donatists
- Answer to Letters of Petilian, Bishop of Cirta
- Merits and Remission of Sin, and Infant Baptism
- On the Spirit and the Letter
- On Nature and Grace
- On Man's Perfection in Righteousness
- On the Proceedings of Pelagius
- On the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin
- On Marriage and Concupiscence
- On the Soul and its Origin
- Against Two Letters of the Pelagians
- On Grace and Free Will
- On Rebuke and Grace
- The Predestination of the Saints/Gift of Perseverance
- Our Lord's Sermon on the Mount
- The Harmony of the Gospels
- Sermons on Selected Lessons of the New Testament
- Tractates on the Gospel of John
- Homilies on the First Epistle of John
- Soliloquies
- The Enarrations, or Expositions, on the Psalms
Bardesanes (154-222)
- The Book of the Laws of Various Countries
Barnabas [SAINT]
- Epistle of Barnabas
Basil the Great [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- De Spiritu Sancto
- Nine Homilies of Hexaemeron
- Letters
Caius
- Fragments
Clement of Alexandria [SAINT]
- Who is the Rich Man That Shall Be Saved?
- Exhortation to the Heathen
- The Instructor
- The Stromata, or Miscellanies
- Fragments
Clement of Rome [SAINT]
- First Epistle
- Second Epistle [SPURIOUS]
- Two Epistles Concerning Virginity [SPURIOUS]
- Recognitions [SPURIOUS]
- Clementine Homilies [SPURIOUS]
Commodianus
- Writings
Cyprian of Carthage [SAINT]
- The Life and Passion of Cyprian By Pontius the Deacon
- The Epistles of Cyprian
- The Treatises of Cyprian
- The Seventh Council of Carthage
Cyril of Jerusalem [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Catechetical Lectures
Dionysius of Rome [SAINT]
- Against the Sabellians
Dionysius the Great
- Epistles and Epistolary Fragments
- Exegetical Fragments
- Miscellaneous Fragments
Ephraim the Syrian (306-373) [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Nisibene Hymns
- Miscellaneous Hymns -- On the Nativity of Christ in the Flesh, For the Feast of the Epiphany, and On the Faith ("The Pearl")
- Homilies -- On Our Lord, On Admonition and Repentance, and On the Sinful Woman
Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 265-c. 340)
- Church History
- Life of Constantine
- Oration of Constantine "to the Assembly of the Saints"
- Oration in Praise of Constantine
- Letter on the Council of Nicaea
Gennadius of Marseilles
- Illustrious Men (Supplement to Jerome)
Gregory the Great, Pope (c. 540-604) [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Pastoral Rule
- Register of Letters
Gregory Nazianzen [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Orations
- Letters
Gregory of Nyssa [SAINT]
- Against Eunomius
- Answer to Eunomius' Second Book
- On the Holy Spirit (Against the Followers of Macedonius)
- On the Holy Trinity, and of the Godhead of the Holy Spirit (To Eustathius)
- On "Not Three Gods" (To Ablabius)
- On the Faith (To Simplicius)
- On Virginity
- On Infants' Early Deaths
- On Pilgrimages
- On the Making of Man
- On the Soul and the Resurrection
- The Great Catechism
- Funeral Oration on Meletius
- On the Baptism of Christ (Sermon for the Day of Lights)
- Letters
Gregory Thaumaturgus [SAINT]
- A Declaration of Faith
- A Metaphrase of the Book of Ecclesiastes
- Canonical Epistle
- The Oration and Panegyric Addressed to Origen
- A Sectional Confession of Faith
- On the Trinity
- Twelve Topics on the Faith
- On the Subject of the Soul
- Four Homilies
- On All the Saints
- On Matthew 6:22-23
Hermas
- The Pastor (or "The Shepherd")
Hilary of Poitiers [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- On the Councils, or the Faith of the Easterns
- On the Trinity
- Homilies on the Psalms
Hippolytus [SAINT]
- The Refutation of All Heresies
- Some Exegetical Fragments of Hippolytus
- Expository Treatise Against the Jews
- Against Plato, On the Cause of the Universe
- Against the Heresy of Noetus
- Discourse on the Holy Theophany
- The Antichrist
- The End of the World (Pseudonymous)
- The Apostles and the Disciples (Pseudonymous)
Ignatius of Antioch [SAINT]
- Epistle to the Ephesians
- Epistle to the Magnesians
- Epistle to the Trallians
- Epistle to the Romans
- Epistle to the Philadelphians
- Epistle to the Smyrnæans
- Epistle to Polycarp
- The Martyrdom of Ignatius
- The Spurious Epistles
Irenaeus of Lyons [SAINT]
- Adversus haereses
- Fragments from the Lost Writings of Irenaeus
Jerome [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Letters
- The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
- To Pammachius Against John of Jerusalem
- The Dialogue Against the Luciferians
- The Life of Malchus, the Captive Monk
- The Life of S. Hilarion
- The Life of Paulus the First Hermit
- Against Jovinianus
- Against Vigilantius
- Against the Pelagians
- Prefaces
- De Viris Illustribus (Illustrious Men)
- Apology for himself against the Books of Rufinus
John of Damascus [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Exposition of the Faith
John Cassian (c. 360-c. 435)
- Institutes
- Conferences
- On the Incarnation of the Lord (Against Nestorius)
John Chrysostom [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Homilies on the Gospel of St. Matthew
- Homilies on Acts
- Homilies on Romans
- Homilies on First Corinthians
- Homilies on Second Corinthians
- Homilies on Ephesians
- Homilies on Philippians
- Homilies on Colossians
- Homilies on First Thessalonians
- Homilies on Second Thessalonians
- Homilies on First Timothy
- Homilies on Second Timothy
- Homilies on Titus
- Homilies on Philemon
- Commentary on Galatians
- Homilies on the Gospel of John
- Homilies on the Epistle to the Hebrews
- Homilies on the Statues
- No One Can Harm the Man Who Does Not Injure Himself
- Two Letters to Theodore After His Fall
- Letter to a Young Widow
- Homily on St. Ignatius
- Homily on St. Babylas
- Homily Concerning "Lowliness of Mind"
- Instructions to Catechumens
- Three Homilies on the Power of Satan
- Homily on the Passage "Father, if it be possible . . ."
- Homily on the Paralytic Lowered Through the Roof
- Homily on the Passage "If your enemy hunger, feed him."
- Homily Against Publishing the Errors of the Brethren
- First Homily on Eutropius
- Second Homily on Eutropius (After His Captivity)
- Four Letters to Olympias
- Letter to Some Priests of Antioch
- Correspondence with Pope Innocent I
- On the Priesthood
Julius Africanus
- Extant Writings
Justin Martyr [SAINT]
- First Apology
- Second Apology
- Dialogue with Trypho
- Hortatory Address to the Greeks
- On the Sole Government of God
- Fragments of the Lost Work on the Resurrection
- Miscellaneous Fragments from Lost Writings
- Martyrdom of Justin, Chariton, and other Roman Martyrs
- Discourse to the Greeks
Lactantius
- The Divine Institutes
- The Epitome of the Divine Institutes
- On the Anger of God
- On the Workmanship of God
- Of the Manner In Which the Persecutors Died
- Fragments of Lactantius
- The Phoenix
- A Poem on the Passion of the Lord
Leo the Great, Pope (c. 395-461) [SAINT] [DOCTOR]
- Sermons
- Letters
Malchion
- Epistle
Mar Jacob (452-521)
- Canticle on Edessa
- Homily on Habib the Martyr
- Homily on Guria and Shamuna
Mathetes
- Epistle to Diognetus
Methodius
- The Banquet of the Ten Virgins
- Concerning Free Will
- From the Discourse on the Resurrection
- Fragments
- Oration Concerning Simeon and Anna
- Oration on the Psalms
- Three Fragments from the Homily on the Cross and Passion of Christ
Minucius Felix
- Octavius
Moses of Chorene (c. 400-c. 490)
- History of Armenia
Novatian
- Treatise Concerning the Trinity
- On the Jewish Meats
Origen
- De Principiis
- Africanus to Origen
- Origen to Africanus
- Origen to Gregory
- Against Celsus
- Letter of Origen to Gregory
- Commentary on the Gospel of John
- Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew
Pamphilus [SAINT]
- Exposition on the Acts of the Apostles
Papias [SAINT]
- Fragments
Peter of Alexandria [SAINT]
- The Genuine Acts
- The Canonical Epistle
- Fragments
Polycarp [SAINT]
- Epistle to the Philippians
- The Martyrdom of Polycarp
Rufinus
- Apology
- Commentary on the Apostles' Creed
- Prefaces and Other Works
Socrates Scholasticus (c. 379-c. 450)
- Ecclesiastical History
Sozomen (c. 375-c. 447)
- Ecclesiastical History
Sulpitius Severus (c. 363-c. 420)
- On the Life of St. Martin
- Letters -- Genuine and Dubious
- Dialogues
- Sacred History
Tatian
- Address to the Greeks
- Fragments
- The Diatessaron
Tertullian
- The Apology
- On Idolatry
- De Spectaculis (The Shows)
- De Corona (The Chaplet)
- To Scapula
- Ad Nationes
- An Answer to the Jews
- The Soul's Testimony
- A Treatise on the Soul
- The Prescription Against Heretics
- Against Marcion
- Against Hermogenes
- Against the Valentinians
- On the Flesh of Christ
- On the Resurrection of the Flesh
- Against Praxeas
- Scorpiace
- Appendix (Against All Heresies)
- On Repentance
- On Baptism
- On Prayer
- Ad Martyras
- The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity (Sometimes attributed to Tertullian)
- Of Patience
- On the Pallium
- On the Apparel of Women
- On the Veiling of Virgins
- To His Wife
- On Exhortation to Chastity
- On Monogamy
- On Modesty
- On Fasting
- De Fuga in Persecutione
Theodoret
- Counter-Statements to Cyril's 12 Anathemas against Nestorius
- Ecclesiastical History
- Dialogues ("Eranistes" or "Polymorphus")
- Demonstrations by Syllogism
- Letters
Theodotus
- Excerpts
Theophilus
- Theophilus to Autolycus
Venantius
- Poem on Easter
Victorinus [SAINT]
- On the Creation of the World
- Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John
Vincent of Lérins (d. c. 450) [SAINT]
- Commonitory for the Antiquity and Universality of the Catholic Faith
OTHER WORKS
Liturgies
- The Liturgy of James
- The Liturgy of Mark
- The Liturgy of the Blessed Apostles
Councils
- Carthage under Cyprian (257) [LOCAL]
- Ancyra (314) [LOCAL]
- Neocaesarea (315) [LOCAL]
- Nicaea I (325) [ECUMENICAL]
- Antioch in Encaeniis (341) [LOCAL]
- Gangra (343) [LOCAL]
- Sardica (344) [LOCAL]
- Constantinople I (381) [ECUMENICAL]
- Constantinople (382) [LOCAL]
- Laodicea (390) [LOCAL]
- Constantinople under Nectarius (394) [LOCAL]
- Carthage (419) [LOCAL]
- Ephesus (431) [ECUMENICAL]
- Chalcedon (451) [ECUMENICAL]
- Constantinople II (553) [ECUMENICAL]
- Constantinople III (680) [ECUMENICAL]
- Constantinople/"Trullo"/Quinisext (692) [LOCAL]
- Nicaea II (787) [ECUMENICAL]
Apocrypha
- Apocalypse of Peter (c. 130)
- Protoevangelium of James (c. 150)
- Acts of Paul and Thecla (c. 180)
- Gospel of Peter (c. 190) [DOCETIC]
- The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (c. 192) [EBIONITIC]
- Acts of Peter and Paul (c. 200)
- Gospel of Thomas (c. 200) [GNOSTIC]
- Acts of Thomas (c. 240) [GNOSTIC]
- Acts of Thaddaeus (c. 250)
- Acts of Andrew (c. 260) [GNOSTIC]
- Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena (c. 270)
- Acts of John [DOCETIC]
- Acts of Philip (c. 350)
- Apocalypse of Paul (c. 380)
- Gospel of Nicodemus (Including "Acta Pilati") (c. 150-400)
- The Doctrine of Addai (c. 400) -- This is a Syriac version of the earlier Acts of Thaddaeus (s.v.)
- Assumption of Mary (c. 400)
- History of Joseph the Carpenter (c. 400)
- Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew (c. 400)
- Acts of Barnabas (c. 500)
- Acts of Bartholomew (c. 500) [NESTORIAN]
- Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle (c. 550) [ABYSSINIAN]
- Arabic Gospel of the Infancy of the Saviour (c. 600)
- Avenging of the Saviour (c. 700)
- Apocalypse of John (unknown date; late)
- Apocalypse of Moses (unknown date) [JUDAISTIC]
- Apocalypse of Esdras (unknown date) [JUDAISTIC]
- Testament of Abraham (unknown date) [JUDAISTIC]
- Narrative of Zosimus (unknown date)
- Gospel of the Nativity of Mary (unknown date; late)
- Narrative of Joseph of Arimathea (unknown date; late)
- Report of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late)
- Letter of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late)
- Giving Up of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late)
- Death of Pilate (unknown date; late)
- Apocalypse of the Virgin (unknown date; very late)
- Apocalypse of Sedrach (unknown date; very late)
- Acts of Andrew and Matthias
- Acts of Peter and Andrew
- Consummation of Thomas the Apostle
Miscellaneous
- The Didache (c. 100)
- Apostolic Constitutions (c. 400)
- The Legend of Barlaam and Josaphat
- The Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs (c. 180)
- A Treatise Against the Heretic Novatian (c. 255)
- A Treatise on Re-Baptism (c. 255)
- Remains of the Second and Third Centuries (various dates)
- Apostolic Canons (c. 400) -- See Apostolic Constitutions, Book VIII, Chapter 47
- Acts of Sharbil (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- The Martyrdom of Barsamya (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- Extracts from Various Books Concerning Abgar the King and Addaeus the Apostle (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- The Teaching of the Apostles (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- The Teaching of Simon Cephas in the City of Rome (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- Martyrdom of Habib the Deacon (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- Martyrdom of the Holy Confessors Shamuna, Guria, and Habib (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- A Letter of Mara, Son of Serapion (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- Ambrose (unknown date) [SYRIAC]
- The False Decretals (c. 850)