Re: LA IGLESIA ADVENTISTA APOSTATO DEL PROTESTANTISMO
Saludos elg
Posiblemente, pero lo dudo ya que sus hijos fueron brillantes. Solo miremos a James Edson White y su obra en favor de los negros para esa época. Veamos a W. C. White y su talentos administrativos.
Relájate... era una broma.
¿Qué de malo tiene esperar a Cristo en nuestros días? Elena pensó lo mismo en su tiempo y Pablo pensó lo mismo. ¿Cuál es el problema? Tú problema surge al no comprender la revelación-inspiración y la posición de Elena en la IASD. Con eso se arreglan el 90% de las críticas mal intencionadas.
¿Críticas malintencionadas? No joelice, simplemente noto que EGW cometió una gran burrada al decir estas cosas especialmente cuando ella consideraba su trabajo más amplio que el de un profeta. Es más, en su collección de "Testimonios" (de donde viene la cita/burrada) ella dice:
"In ancient time God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His spirit."
Con esas credenciales (cambiando el nombre del Hijo de Dios por "los Testimonios") ¿crees que más de un incauto no fue a la universidad?
Creo que algunos lo habrán hecho. Pero no comprendes que más posteriormente la misma Elena fue la mayor impulsadora del establecimiento de varios Colegios Adventistas comenzando por Battle Creek (1874), Pacific Union College (1881) y Atalantic Union College (1882). ¿Donde quedó el consejo que te gusta criticar?
En la basura donde debería haber sido puesto antes de publicarlo como "TESTIMONIO". ¿No crees?
En su época y en su lugar. Esa cita se balancea al encontrar esto:
"Aquí—Avondale—se debería establecer una industria de alimentos saludables relacionada con el colegio. Dios me ha indicado que los padres pueden hallar trabajo en esta industria y enviar a sus hijos al colegio. Pero todo debe ser hecho con la mayor sencillez. No debe haber extravagancia en ningún aspecto. Es necesario realizar una obra sólida, porque de lo contrario los resultados dejarían mucho que desear”.—(Australasian) Union Conference Record, 28 de julio de 1899".
En este Colegio de Australia, EGW parece decir todo lo contrario de lo que dijo al principio. ¿Porqué?:
1. La expansión del adventismo como parte del plan de Dios motivó a establecerse como una organización y a establecer colegios e institutos de educación. De esta manera, según la época y el momento, el viejo consejo ya no estaba en utilidad.
Bueno joelice, y si era el plan de Dios, por qué EGW aseguró que el tiempo es corto, "Nuestros hijos quizás nunca entren en la universidad", "No es realmente sabio tener hijos ahora", "cuantos menos sean los casamientos contraídos, mejor para todos, tanto hombres como mujeres", "Vi que el tiempo durante el cual Jesús estaría en el lugar santísimo casi había terminado, y que el tiempo no podía durar sino un poquito más...El tiempo del sellamiento es muy corto, y pronto habrá terminado". Exáctamente ¿cómo, según tú, estos "testimonios" armonizan con los planes de Dios?
2. La comprensión progresiva y entendimiento de EGW sobre ciertos aspectos creció con los años. Eso lo sabes muy bien.
"Vi que el tiempo durante el cual Jesús estaría en el lugar santísimo casi había terminado, y que el tiempo no podía durar sino un poquito más...El tiempo del sellamiento es muy corto, y pronto habrá terminado". ¿Crees que cuando ella "vio" esto ella no tenía la comprensión progresiva y entendimiento suficiente?
3. Solo debemos aplicar el principio del consejo dado anteriormente. El principio sería "que los padres tienen que tener cuidado antes de enviar a sus hijos a cualquier universidad". Lo de "no enviar ni tener hijos" no se aplica ya.
Y ¿cuándo, según tú, se aplicó?
4. EGW creía que Cristo venía en sus días. ¿Cuál es el problema? ¿Tú crees lo mismo?
Una cosa es creer y otra decir "TESTIMONIOS" como:
"I was shown the company present at the Conference [1856]. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth [without seeing death] to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Testimonies For The Church Volume One (1855-1868), page 131, paragraph 3 Chapter Title: Conformity to the World
Traducción:
Me fue mostrada la "compañía" presente en la Conferencia [1856]. El angel dijo: Algunos (serán) comida para gusanos, algunos (serán) sujetos de las siete últimas plagas, algunos estarán vivos [sin ver la muerte] y permanecerán en la tierra para ser trasladados en la venida de Cristo".
Nuevamente tomando consejos aislados y aplicándolos de cualquier modo que te beneficie. Te respondo lo mismo de arriba y añado un punto. Un principio hermenéutico que tú ignoras al igual que los críticos de la "viejita" es que no toman en cuenta TODO lo que ella dijo sobre un tema específico. En este caso el consejo tiene la misma aplicación y respuesta que el de arriba y solo aplicamos el principio. ¿No has leído la literatura adventista? A ningún serio estudioso de la Biblia y del adventismo estos consejos "complejos" nos presentan problemas. Solo los críticos exageran los asuntos.
Menciona la fecha y/o evento específico que dio validez a ese "testimonio".
Esa es una acusación demasiada apresurada, malintencionada y sin ninguna evidencias. Debes probar:
1. Que ella "era una loba" vestida de "oveja".
Ya te di varias citas que lo demuestra. Si no te parece entonces demuestra que esas citas tenían validez y hubo un período en la IASD donde Dios aconsejó a los ASD a no casarse y a no tener hijos.
2. Que creó "pánico" con esos consejos. Mencioname ejemplos de personas que sufrieron de ese "pánico".
No tengo la cita original pero te voy a poner la explicación de Mervyn Maxwell:
A principio de 1850s a la Sra. White se le mostró en visión que entre el pequeño numero de personas presentadas en una reunión particular, algunos serian "comida para gusanos, algunos objeto de las siete plagas,
algunos estarían vivos y permanecerían en la tierra para ser trasladados en la venida de Jesús. Casi al instante uno de los aquellos presentes, Clarissa Bonfoey, manifestó síntomas de cáncer terminal y en tres días después de la reunión murió. La prontitud de su muerte fue tomada como evidencia divina que el tiempo de los otros necesitarían esperar a Jesús - o las plagas - el cual seria tambien relativamente corto.
Como otros quienes habían escuchado la declaración "comida para gusanos" de la Sra. White empezó a decaer, sin embargo,
la atención se enfocó en un cierto bebe que se decía que había estado presente en dicha reunión. Para los años 1930 este niño había crecido. Y si el estaba en el grupo de los que iban a vivir hasta ser traslados en la segunda venida, entonces la segunda venida no podía estar lejos.
A principios de los años 1930s, cuando era niño y vivía en Bretaña, recuerdo haber escuchado a una persona consagrada expresar su fe diciendo que la venida de Cristo debía estar ciertamente muy cerca. Entonces escuchamos que el "bebe" había muerto.
3. Que solo quería vender sus libros para obtener dinero en cantidades para uso personal.
4. Que quería "mantener las iglesias llenas". Eso debes probarlo contra el contexto histórico de ese tiempo de "expansión misionera" del adventismo.
Broadside2, January 31, 1849 par. 8}
"
For two years past, the Lord has shown me in vision, repeatedly, that it is contrary to the Bible to make any provision for our temporal wants in the time of trouble. I saw that if the saints have food laid up by them, or in the fields, in the time of trouble when sword, famine, and pestilence are in the land, it will be taken from them by violent hands and strangers would reap their fields. Then will be the time for us to trust wholly in God, and he will sustain us. I saw that our bread and water would be sure at that time, and we should not lack, or suffer hunger.--The Lord has shown me that some of his children would fear when they see the price of food rising, and they would buy food and lay it by for the time of trouble. Then in a time of need, I saw them go to their food and look at it, and it had bred worms, and was full of living creatures, and not fit for use. About one week since, the Lord showed me in vision, that houses and lands would be of no use in the time of trouble, and in that time they could not be disposed of.
I saw it was the will of God that the saints should cut loose from every encumbrance--dispose of their houses and lands before the time of trouble comes, and make a covenant with God by sacrifice. I saw they would sell if they laid their property on the altar and earnestly inquired for duty. Then God will teach them when to dispose of these things. Then they will be free in the time of trouble, and have no clogs to weigh them down. {Broadside2, January 31, 1849 par. 9}
Por si te quieres entretener:
Testimonies V4
Chap. 35 - Our Publications
Some things of grave importance have not been receiving due attention at our offices of publication. Men in responsible positions should have worked up plans whereby our books could be circulated and not lie on the shelves, falling dead from the press. Our people are behind the times and are not following the opening providence of God. {4T 388.1}
Many of our publications have been thrown into the market at so low a figure that the profits are not sufficient to sustain the office and keep good a fund for continual use. And those of our people who have no special burden of the various branches of the work at Battle Creek and Oakland do not become informed in regard to the wants of the cause and the capital required to keep the business moving. They do not understand the liability to losses and the expense every day occurring to such institutions. They seem to think that everything moves off without much care or outlay of means, and therefore they will urge the necessity of the lowest figures on our publications,
thus leaving scarcely any margin. And after the prices have been reduced to almost ruinous figures, they manifest but a feeble interest in increasing the sales of the very books on which they have asked such low prices. The object gained, their burden ceases, when they ought to have an earnest interest and a real care to press the sale of the publications, thereby sowing the seeds of truth and bringing means into the offices to invest in other publications. {4T 388.2}
There has been a very great neglect of duty on the part of ministers in not interesting the churches in the localities where they labor, in regard to this matter. When once the prices of books are reduced, it is a very difficult matter to get them again upon a paying basis, as men of narrow minds will cry, Speculation, not discerning that no one man is benefited, and that God's instrumentalities must not be crippled for want of capital. Books that ought to be widely circulated are lying useless
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in our offices of publication because there is not interest enough manifested to get them circulated. {4T 388.3}
The press is a power; but if its products fall dead for want of men who will execute plans to widely circulate them, its power is lost. While there has been a quick foresight to discern the necessity of laying out means in facilities to multiply books and tracts, plans to bring back the means invested so as to produce other publications, have been neglected. The power of the press, with all its advantages, is in their hands; and they can use it to the very best account, or they can be half asleep and through inaction lose the advantages which they might gain. By judicious calculation they can extend the light in the sale of books and pamphlets. They can send them into thousands of families that now sit in the darkness of error. {4T 389.1}
Other publishers have regular systems of introducing into the market books of no vital interest. "The children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light." Golden opportunities occur almost daily where the silent messengers of truth might be introduced into families and to individuals; but no advantage is taken of these opportunities by the indolent, thoughtless ones. Living preachers are few. There is only one where there should be a hundred. Many are making a great mistake in not putting their talents to use in seeking to save the souls of their fellow men. Hundreds of men should be engaged in carrying the light all through our cities, villages, and towns. The public mind must be agitated. God says: Let light be sent out into all parts of the field. He designs that men shall be channels of light, bearing it to those who are in darkness. {4T 389.2}
Missionaries are wanted everywhere. In all parts of the field canvassers should be selected, not from the floating element in society, not from among men and women who are good for nothing else and have made a success of nothing, but from among those who have good address, tact, keen foresight, and ability. Such are needed to make a success as
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colporteurs, canvassers, and agents. Men suited to this work undertake it, but some injudicious minister will flatter them that their gift should be employed in the desk instead of simply in the work of the colporteur. Thus this work is belittled. They are influenced to get a license to preach; and the very ones who might have been trained to make good missionaries to visit families at their homes and talk and pray with them are caught up to make poor ministers; and the field where so much labor is needed, and where so much good might be accomplished for the cause, is neglected. The efficient colporteur, as well as the minister, should have a sufficient remuneration for his services if his work is faithfully done. {4T 389.3}
If there is one work more important than another, it is that of getting our publications before the public, thus leading them to search the Scriptures. Missionary work--introducing our publications into families, conversing, and praying with and for them--is a good work and one which will educate men and women to do pastoral labor. {4T 390.1}
Everyone is not fitted for this work. Those of the best talent and ability, who will take hold of the work understandingly and systematically, and carry it forward with persevering energy, are the ones who should be selected. There should be a most thoroughly organized plan; and this should be faithfully carried out. Churches in every place should feel the deepest interest in the tract and missionary work. {4T 390.2}
The volumes of Spirit of Prophecy, and also the Testimonies, should be introduced into every Sabbathkeeping family, and the brethren should know their value and be urged to read them. It was not the wisest plan to place these books at a low figure and have only one set in a church. They should be in the library of every family and read again and again. Let them be kept where they can be read by many, and let them be worn out in being read by all the neighbors. {4T 390.3}
There should be evening readings, in which one should read aloud to those assembled at the winter fireside. There is but little interest manifested to make the most of the light
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given of God. Much of it is concerning family duties, and instruction is given to meet almost every case and circumstance. Money will be expended for tea, coffee, ribbons, ruffles, and trimmings, and much time and labor spent in preparing the apparel, while the inward work of the heart is neglected. God has caused precious light to be brought out in publications, and these should be owned and read by every family. Parents, your children are in danger of going contrary to the light given of heaven, and you should both purchase and read the books, for they will be a blessing to you and yours. You should lend Spirit of Prophecy to your neighbors and prevail upon them to buy copies for themselves. Missionaries for God, you should be earnest, active, vigorous workers. {4T 390.4}
Many are going directly contrary to the light which God has given to His people, because they do not read the books which contain the light and knowledge in cautions, reproofs, and warnings. The cares of the world, the love of fashion, and the lack of religion have turned the attention from the light God has so graciously given, while books and periodicals containing error are traveling all over the country. Skepticism and infidelity are increasing everywhere. Light so precious, coming from the throne of God, is hid under a bushel. God will make His people responsible for this neglect. An account must be rendered to Him for every ray of light He has let shine upon our pathway, whether it has been improved to our advancement in divine things or rejected because it was more agreeable to follow inclination. {4T 391.1}
We now have great facilities for spreading the truth; but our people are not coming up to the privileges given them. They do not in every church see and feel the necessity of using their abilities in saving souls. They do not realize their duty to obtain subscribers for our periodicals, including our health journal, and to introduce our books and pamphlets. Men should be at work who are willing to be taught as to the best way of approaching individuals and families. Their dress should be neat, but not foppish, and their manners such as not
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to disgust the people. There is a great want of true politeness among us as a people. This should be cultivated by all who take hold of the missionary work. {4T 391.2}
Our publishing houses should show marked prosperity. Our people can sustain them if they will show a decided interest to work our publications into the market. But should as little interest be manifested in the year to come as has been shown in the year past, there will be but a small margin to work upon. The wider the circulation of our publications, the greater will be the demand for books that make plain the Scriptures of truth. Many are becoming disgusted with the inconsistencies, the errors, and the apostasy of the churches, and with the festivals, fairs, lotteries, and numerous inventions to extort money for church purposes. There are many who are seeking for light in the darkness. If our papers, tracts, and books, expressing the truth in plain Bible language, could be widely circulated, many would find that they are just what they want. But many of our brethren act as though the people were to come to them or send to our offices to obtain publications, when thousands do not know that they exist. {4T 392.1}
God calls upon His people to act like living men and not to be indolent, sluggish, and indifferent. We must carry the publications to the people and urge them to accept, showing them that they will receive much more than their money's worth. Exalt the value of the books you offer. You cannot regard them too highly. {4T 392.2}
My soul was agonized as I saw the indifference of our people who make so high a profession. I was shown that the blood of souls will be on the garments of very many who now feel at ease and irresponsible for souls that are perishing around them for want of light and knowledge. They have come in contact with them, but have never warned them, never prayed with or for them, and never made earnest efforts to present the truth to them. I was shown that there has been a wonderful negligence on this point. Ministers are not doing one half what they might do to educate the people for whom
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they labor upon all points of truth and duty, and, as a consequence, the people are spiritless and inactive. The stake and scaffold are not appointed for this time to test the people of God, and for this very reason the love of many has waxed cold. When trials arise, grace is proportioned for the emergency. We must individually consecrate ourselves on the very spot where God has said He would meet us.
EGW peleando por más dinero:
MR No. 1433 - Inadequate Royalties on Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. IV
(Written to J. H. Waggoner and C. H. Jones, March 7, 1885, from Healdsburg, California.)
I have read your letters once, and will read them more carefully later, but I find nothing in them to lift the weight from my mind in regard to arrangements for the publication and sale of my books. {20MR 48.1}
I accept the explanations you make in regard to the draft. I have not laid up anything in my mind against you over this matter. However, I feel more and more convinced that I should never again allow myself to be left at the mercy of my brethren as regards means, if I can avoid it. {20MR 48.2}
From the light that God has given me, I am more and more convinced that you are acting unwisely in investing so much means in buildings. Since debts are now bearing you down, like weights of lead, I would advise you to "hug the shore" more closely in this respect. When you have means with which to build, then it will be time for you to increase your facilities. Bring your work within the limits of your resources, even if you must thereby endure great inconvenience. This is the light that God has repeatedly given me for you. It would be pleasing to God if you were to give this matter more careful study than you have given it. {20MR 48.3}
With reference to my book, I desire to say that I am not complaining because I think the office has been receiving too much for publishing it, but because I am not satisfied with the income it brings to me. Some plan should have been devised whereby more than fifteen cents royalty per copy would come to me. I do not remember that I was ever consulted regarding this matter. I thought that my brethren would guard my interests as sacredly as they would their own interests or the interests of the office. I know where to apply means to help the cause fully as well as my brethren know where to apply my means for me. {20MR 48.4}
I have just received a letter from Brother Ostrander in which he defends Brother Hamilton, against whom I made the charge that he appropriated means belonging to me and used it for his own convenience, building a house in Boulder. To make a bad matter worse, he exchanged this building for land in Longmont. This land was mortgaged, and it became necessary for me to invest six hundred dollars
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to lift the mortgage, in order to avoid losing all that Brother Hamilton used. Thus about two thousand dollars, which I greatly need, is tied up. {20MR 48.5}
And now Brother Ostrander proposes to relieve me of all further difficulty in regard to this property, by taking it off my hands. The mission in Colorado is embarrassed, and the proposition is that I donate to this mission the two thousand dollars tied up in this property. My brethren may feel ready to give me this kind of relief, but I am not ready to accept their proposition. {20MR 49.1}
My brethren of wise judgment could have managed my book--Volume IV [SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, VOL. IV, THE PREDECESSOR OF THE GREAT CONTROVERSY.]--in such a way that relief would have been brought to me. They could have published a statement to the effect that this book had cost me much time and money to prepare and put on the market; and that, as I had pledged largely for the support of missions--no less than three thousand dollars--in addition to meeting other heavy expenses, the profits on the first edition of this book would go to the author to reimburse her for a portion of the heavy expense incurred; that the profits on the second edition would be divided between the canvassers and the author. Thus you could have helped me, but you did not. {20MR 49.2}
Hereafter I cannot put implicit confidence in all the plans you devise and execute, so far as my work is concerned. I will keep on the lookout for a manager, and when I find one who is suitable, I will employ him. I will not trust my book interests with my good brethren who plan in such a way that a certain portion of the profit is taken off by this one and by that one, and only a very small portion is left for me. {20MR 49.3}
All your explanations and figures do not help me at all. My books are selling well, and yet I have scarcely enough money to procure the necessary things of life; and when I send to the office for funds, there comes to me the oft-repeated reply, "You have overdrawn your account." My helpers are not paid for the work they have done. I am carrying a heavy burden of debt, on which I pay interest. My books are constantly sold in large numbers, and yet the profits bring me but little relief. {20MR 49.4}
Matters are so arranged that those who write books cannot receive proper compensation, because the books go through so many hands that the profits are consumed in this way. Whether canvassers, or tract and missionary societies, or whatever it may be that brings about this result, I protest against such an arrangement. If we should revive the old plan of our ministers disposing of the books and receiving part of the profits themselves, I believe there
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would be a better state of things than exists today. Under present arrangements, it seems as if almost everything is absorbed by the tract and missionary societies, leaving very little profit for the author. I shall have something more to say on these things. {20MR 49.5}
Only the expense of publishing and selling my book, Vol. IV, should have been taken from the profits. The rest should have been saved for the author. No canvassers were needed for Vol. IV. It could have been sold without going to all this expense. I am not satisfied with the result.
Those who have felt that they were doing me justice by awarding me fifteen cents for each copy sold have erred in judgment. {20MR 50.1}
The notice of the higher prices placed on the book should never have been published. No explanation of this was made at the time. If nothing in explanation could have been written, the notice would better have remained unpublished. {20MR 50.2}
I will make no rash moves, but I cannot submit to the arrangements made. They are unjust. The money used in paying canvassers for selling the first edition was misspent, for I should have received the profits on that edition. I know where to use this means to the very best advantage, and yet I have nothing to use in any way. I economize in every way possible, and still do not have sufficient to meet running expenses. {20MR 50.3}
I am sick at heart and discouraged over the present state of affairs. If the notice of the advance in price had been published before the first ten thousand books were sold, it would have been far better. I have trusted too much in my brethren. I regret making this mistake. In the future I must look after my own interests more closely.--Letter 15, 1885.
