Pues aqui te doy uno: Michael Tagliacozzo, y su testimonio en Ingles
BY PHONE LINK-UP WITH ISRAEL:
AN INTERVIEW WITH PROFESSOR MICHAEL TAGLIACOZZO, A ROMAN JEW WHO SURVIVED THE SHOAH, AND WHO IS ONE OF THE MOST AUTHORITATIVE HISTORIANS ALIVE TODAY
Alberto De Marco
Michael Tagliacozzo, a Roman Jew born in 1921, a Holocaust survivor and member of Kibbutz Nir Etsiyon on Mount Carmel, is considered one of the leading scholars of the historical events of the Roman Jewish community. Despite his venerable age, thanks to his exceptional memory, he keeps on busily working, particularly on the important work of the historical reconstruction of the events which took place during the Second World War. Currently he directs the Italian section at Beth Lohamè Haghettaot [Bet Lochame Ha-Ghettaot = The Ghetto Fighters’ House], one of the main museums and study centers existing in Israel, outstanding for its vast historical documentation on the Holocaust and World War II.
In a telephone conversation [with Prof. Tagliacozzo] at his home in Israel, we asked some questions to dispel the criticisms regarding the figure of Pope Pius XII, by means of the fundamental testimony of a historian who actually lived through the events he narrates. In the past, politicians, journalists and cultural figures have given due recognition to this most beloved pontiff, but at the same time there was more condemnation from critics, and especially by those who did not live through that time, who have sought to falsify history by disseminating spurious legends and news items.
Prof. Michael Tagliacozzo, how did you come to earn the silver medal of the President of the Republic that will be conferred in December of 2009 in the prestigious Conference Room of the Chamber of Deputies … for the contribution you have made to the reconstruction of historical truth in the twentieth century?
[It is] an acknowledgement that my persevering dedication, devoted to historical truth, is not in vain.
What greeting do you wish to offer to those who will on May 21 take part in the presentation in the Chamber of Deputies of a new book, Pope Pius XII: An Anthology of Texts, on the 70th Anniversary of His Coronation, in the presence of the author, the American nun Margherita Marchione?
A fraternal greeting especially to Sister Margherita for the joint work [we have been involved in] to dispel the claims of supporters of the "Black Legend".
As one of the Jewish survivors of the October 16 roundup in the Eternal City, how were you able to save yourself?
My family lived in Monteverde Nuovo, and so I did not witness the pitiless siege of the Roman ghetto. On October 16, I was at the house of my fiancée in Via Adalberto Nomentano. At 6 a.m., two S.S. officers broke into the apartment. I managed to evade capture by climbing, still in my pajamas, from a window of the apartment, which was located on the mezzanine. My fiancée, her brother and their mother, were captured and killed in Auschwitz. I am one of the Jews who survived the German roundup, and I found refuge in the Roman Major Seminary, in the extraterritorial zone of the Lateran.
Does the fact that the process for the beatification of Pius XII is continuing disturb you?
Absolutely not. It does not disturb me in any way. The beatification and canonization are processes within the Church and I do not see why we Jews should interfere. The Church has its own rules, its own rituals and proclaims its own saints.
Are you convinced that there was a recommendation or order given by Pius XII to save Jews?
Of course there was an order from above. The second-in-command at the time, Bishop Luigi Traglia, affirmed that on the night of Christmas in 1943, during the Mass held in a chapel of the Lateran. The political refugees and Jews were in attendance at the ceremony. At the end he spoke some words of encouragement, and, in reply to the thanks of those present, he said, "Thank the Holy Father, who wished it to be thus". It is certain that, without an order from the Pope, the doors of the convents would not have been opened, and the law of cloister would not have been lifted as regards the women’s convents which welcomed men, women and children.
The children of the Jewish orphanage found refuge in a convent through the good offices of the director, Margherita Di Cave.
How many Jews were able to benefit from hospitality in the convents thanks to the intervention of priests and nuns?
According to statistics studied and reported by the well-known historian Renzo De Felice, about five thousand were accepted into ecclesiastical institutions. Of these, 4238 were in convents, monasteries and other religious institutions, while 477 found refuge in the Vatican and in the extraterritorial areas linked to the Holy See.
Taking in and supporting Jews, opponents of the dictatorship, many of the persecuted—was this decided upon only by the choice of a few representatives of the Catholic Church?
The [source of the] organization and scale of this welcome could not be other than a discreet directive resulting from above.
How should we regard the actions of Pius XII before October 16, 1943 and after that date?
It would be sufficient to re-read the Encyclical Mystici Corporus Christi from June 1943, and the editorials of L’Osservatore Romano, both before and during the war, which would not have been published without the tacit approval of Pius XII.
Were the main information media of Vatican City (Vatican Radio and L’Osservatore Romano) adequately used?
They were disseminated adequately, [but] with prudence. Anyone who was caught buying L’Osservatore Romano at the newsstands was beaten up by squadristi [=thugs?]. The more shrewd newspaper delivery men delivered the newspaper [L’Osservatore Romano] hidden inside the pages of a Fascist newspaper.
In the seventh hall of Yad Vashem, there is a panel where, alongside a photo of Eugenio Pacelli, [who served as] Pope under the name of Pius XII, there is a caption that speaks of him as responsible for silence and the absence of guidelines for denouncing the Shoah. In that respect, are the reactions (in 2005) of the Apostolic Nuncio in Israel, Archbishop Pietro Sambi, of the new Apostolic Nuncio, Archbishop Antonio Franco (in 2007), and—saving the best for last—the recent reaction of Pope Benedict XVI in 2009, excessive?
This well-known panel is merely yet another attack, spread with the help of widespread ignorance. The person who pushed to have this panel hung there has, however, neglected to put up a second panel that recalls “The responsibility of the American and British governments in the tragedy of the Jews of Europe,” as reported in 1942 by U.S. Secretary Morgenthau and published in June 1948 on the Monthly Review of Israel, a magazine published by the Union of Italian Jewish Communities.
Professor Alberto Melloni, in an article in Corriere della Sera, on December 28, 2004, claimed that: “... Pope Pius XII is believed to have transmitted to [Angelo] Roncalli, the Nuncio in France [and later Pope John XXIII], by means of the Holy Office, horrifying orders,” that is, not to deliver Jewish children (if they had been baptized) to Jewish organizations, or to parents who had survived. The article further specifies that the future Pope John XXIII disregarded the order received. Does this statement of Professor Melloni have a historical basis?
He has been spreading this claim [Italian: circostanza, “circumstance”?], but without providing the provenance [=source] for it, or documentation [to support it].
In recent days, in a Roman theater, the drama “The Vicar,” by the German playwright Rolf Hochhuth, was staged. Hochhuth was the one who, in 1963, first raised the question of the silence of Pius XII toward the Holocaust, accusing him and in this way building up over time his [Pius’] image and reputation. In these judgements, was Hochhuth pushed by someone or something?
This misleading drama, “The Vicar,” has, is well known, given rise to the “Black Legend,” made up by the “exposing” of facts dictated by the tendentious imagination of an author in search of publicity.
As many people will recall, Rolf Hochhuth rallied, in February 2005, to the side of the self-taught anti-Semitic English historian David Irving, author of several books on the Second World War, who has presented Adolf Hitler positively. In 2000, Irving (who has been criticized for his philo-Nazi positions) lost his defamation case against the Jewish scholar Deborah Lipstadt, author of Denying the Holocaust (Free Press 1993), which had accused him of denial. How should Hochhuth’s attitude toward Irving be interpreted?
His ideology is amply demonstrated by his extemporaneous written and oral comments. It is not worth refuting the ramblings of an incurable nostalgic.
Are the writers Susan Zuccotti and John Cornwell merely detractors?
Susan Zuccotti is an excellent writer, but tendentious and ambiguous. She quotes extensively from documentation of circumstances and events supportive of her thinking, while giving limited space to the documentation of the other side. She is obviously biased in terms of the work of Pius XII.
As for Cornwell, I cannot say. I have not had the opportunity to read his writings, and I have not followed the controversy he has provoked.
