¿Crees en la evolucion?

¿Crees en la evolucion?


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Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Toda una bandada de cuevos.......... esta en inglés se llama "murder"

Non-standard cosmologies
Non-standard cosmologies can be grouped according to the assumptions or the features of the big bang universe which they contradict.

[edit] Alternative metric cosmologies
The Friedmann-Robertson-Walker metric that is necessary for the Big Bang and steady state models emerged in the decade after the development of Einstein's General Relativity (GR) and was accepted as a model for the universe after Edwin Hubble's discovery of his eponymous law. It was not clear early on how to find a "universe solution" to Einstein's equations that allowed for a universe that was infinite, unending, and immutable (scientists of the time assumed for philosophical reasons the universe should have such a character). Even after the development of expanding universe theories, people would engage in this exercise from time to time when looking for a replacement for general relativity. Any alternative theory of gravity would imply immediately an alternative cosmological theory since current modeling is dependent on GR as a framework assumption. What is included are a number of models based on alternative gravitational scenarios as well as early attempts to derive cosmological solutions from relativity.

[edit] Newtonian cosmology
Main article: Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker metric#Newtonian approximation
While not seriously advocated by anyone after Einstein's development of relativity, Newtonian gravity can be used to model the universe and non-rigorously derive the Friedmann equations that are used in the big bang universe. This non-standard cosmology is mostly used as an elementary exercise for astronomy and physics students and doesn't represent a serious alternative proposal.

[edit] Lorentzian universes
Main article: Milne model
Before the complete development of general relativity, Arthur Milne offered a cosmology based on Lorentz transformations which had the feature of being applicable to a universe of any scale. Unfortunately, it relied on a rejection of the curvature of space and so contradicted predictions from general relativity about the shape of the universe caused by the mass it contains. Milne's universe is still used today as a model of a hypothetical "empty universe".

[edit] Early general relativity based cosmologies
Main article: static universe
Main article: De Sitter universe
Before the present general relativistic cosmological model was developed, Albert Einstein proposed a way to dynamically stabilize a cosmological scenario that would necessarily collapse in on itself due to the gravitational attraction[citation needed] of the matter constituents in the universe. Such a universe would need a source of "anti-gravity" to balance out the mutual attraction[citation needed], a scalar term in Einstein's equations that would come to be known as the cosmological constant. Einstein's first attempt at modeling relied on a cosmological constant that was finely tuned to exactly balance out matter curvature and provide a framework for an infinite and unchanging spacetime metric in which the objects of the universe were embedded. This happens to be the same as a special case of the current cosmological model where the cosmic scale factor is unchanging and the density seen in the Friedman equations is equally divided between the cosmological constant and matter.

Willem de Sitter would later generalize Einstein's scalar potential model to a universe model that would expand exponentially. As the early development of the Big Bang theory began, DeSitter would be falsely credited for inventing the expanding universe metric because of this. In reality, it was the work of Alexander Friedman and Georges Lemaitre who established the metric that would come to be the most accepted for cosmology. Nevertheless, DeSitter's model appears in two places today: in the discussion of cosmic inflation and in the discussion of dark energy dominated universes.

[edit] Machian universe
Main article: Mach's principle
Main article: Brans-Dicke theory
Ernst Mach developed a kind of extension to general relativity which proposed that inertia was due to gravitational effects of the mass distribution of the universe. This led naturally to speculation about the cosmological implications for such a proposal. Carl Brans and Robert Dicke were able to successfully incorporate Mach's principle into general relativity which admitted for cosmological solutions that would imply a variable mass. The homogeneously distributed mass of the universe would result in a roughly scalar field that permeated the universe and would serve as a source for Newton's gravitational constant; creating a theory of quantum gravity.

[edit] Gödel's universe
Main article: Gödel metric
Partly as a counter-example to Mach's principle, Kurt Gödel found a solution to the Einstein field equations describing a universe with a non-zero angular momentum. This cosmology contained closed timelike curves; a signal or object starting from an event in such a universe could return to the same event. Einstein was unsatisfied with the implications of this and abandoned his hope for incorporating Mach's Principle into general relativity. Because of this effect, astronomers can in principle put limits on the rotation rate of the universe which today is measured to be close enough to zero that no cosmological implications should be expected.

[edit] MOND
Main article: Modified Newtonian Dynamics
Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) is a relatively modern proposal to explain the galaxy rotation problem based on a variation of Newton's Second Law of Dynamics at low accelerations. This would produce a large-scale variation of Newton's universal theory of gravity. A modification of Newton's theory would also imply a modification of general relativistic cosmology in as much as Newtonian cosmology is the limit of Friedman cosmology. While almost all astrophysicists today reject MOND in favor of dark matter, a small number of researchers continue to enhance it, recently incorporating Brans-Dicke theories into treatments that attempt to account for cosmological observations.

[edit] TeVeS
Main article: TeVeS
Tensor-vector-scalar gravity (TeVeS) is a proposed relativistic theory that is equivalent to Modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND) in the non-relativistic limit, which purports to explain the galaxy rotation problem without invoking dark matter. Originated by Jacob Bekenstein in 2004, it incorporates various dynamical and non-dynamical tensor fields, vector fields and scalar fields.

The break-through of TeVeS over MOND is that it can explain the phenomenon of gravitational lensing, a cosmic optical illusion in which matter bends light, which has been confirmed many times. A recent preliminary finding is that it can explain structure formation without CDM, but requiring a ~2eV massive neutrino (They are also required to fit some Clusters of galaxies, including Bullet Cluster) [1] and [2]. However, other authors (see Slosar, Melchiorri and Silk [3]) claim that TeVeS can't explain cosmic microwave background anisotropies and structure formation at the same time, i.e. ruling out those models at high significance.

[edit] Steady state theories
Main article: Steady-state theory
The Steady state theory was proposed in 1948 by Fred Hoyle, Thomas Gold, Hermann Bondi and others as an alternative to the Big Bang theory that modified the homogeneity assumption of the cosmological principle to reflect a homogeneity in time as well as in space. This "perfect cosmological principle" as it would come to be called predicted a universe that expanded but did not change its density. In order to accomplish this, steady state cosmology had to posit a "matter-creation field" (the so called C-field) that would insert matter into the universe in order to maintain a constant density.

The idea was almost immediately attacked by proponents of the Big Bang who described the C-field as contradictory to a consistent understanding of physics. Hoyle, one of the most vocal proponents of the steady state model, and a committed materialist, believed that the competing, older model was forced as it violated fundamental philosophical principles regarding the infinite nature of existence. Hoyle explicitly warned that the Big Bang was being promoted as a first cause dogma in line with Western theology rather than science. To attack the connection, Hoyle began a public campaign to discredit the Big Bang theory and wound up coining the term "Big Bang" which remains stuck to the standard cosmological theory today, though the descriptive quality of the name has heavily been criticized as being misleading.[2]

The debate between the Big Bang and the Steady State models would happen for 15 years with camps roughly evenly divided until the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation. This radiation is a natural feature of the Big Bang model which demands a "time of last scattering" where photons decouple with baryonic matter. The Steady State model proposed that this radiation could be accounted for by so-called "integrated starlight" which was a background caused in part by Olbers' paradox in an infinite universe. In order to account for the uniformity of the background, steady state proponents posited a fog effect associated with microscopic iron particles that would scatter radio waves in such a manner as to produce an isotropic CMB. The proposed phenomena was whimsically named "cosmic iron whiskers" and served as the thermalization mechanism. The Steady State theory did not have the horizon problem of the Big Bang because it assumed an infinite amount of time was available for thermalizing the background.

As more cosmological data began to be collected, cosmologists began to realize that the Big Bang correctly predicted the abundance of light elements observed in the cosmos. What was a coincidental ratio of hydrogen to deuterium and helium in the steady state model was a feature of the Big Bang model. Additionally, detailed measurements of the CMB beginning in the 1990s indicated that the spectrum of the background was closer to a blackbody than any other source in nature. The best integrated starlight models could predict was a thermalization to the level of 10% while the COBE satellite measured the deviation at one part in 105. After this dramatic discovery, the majority of cosmologists became convinced that the steady state theory could not explain the cosmological observations as well as the Big Bang. Since that time, detailed observations of WMAP have isolated a standard Lambda-CDM model which relates the anisotropies in the CMB to features in the universe such as large-scale structure, the detailed nature of Hubble's Law, and even bizarre features such as inflation, dark energy, and cold dark matter.

Although the original steady state model is now considered to be contrary to observations even by its one-time supporters, a modification of the steady state model has been proposed which envisions the universe as originating through many little bangs rather than one big bang. It supposes that the Universe goes through periodic expansion and contraction phases, with a soft "rebound" in place of the Big Bang. Thus the redshift is explained by the fact that the Universe is currently in an expansion phase. A handful of remaining steady state theorists (most famously Jayant V. Narlikar) continue to insist that the intergalactic medium contains cosmic iron whiskers. However, there is still no corroborating observational evidence for the existence of these iron particles.

[edit] Proposals based on observational skepticism
As the observational cosmology began to develop, certain astronomers began to offer alternative speculations regarding the interpretation of various phenomena that occasionally became parts of non-standard cosmologies.

[edit] Tired light
Main article: tired light
The tired light effect was proposed by Fritz Zwicky in 1929 as a possible alternative explanation for the observed cosmological redshift. The basic proposal amounted to light losing energy ("getting tired") due to the distance it traveled rather than any metric expansion or physical recession of sources from observers. A traditional explanation of this effect was to attribute a dynamical friction to photons; the photons' gravitational interactions with stars and other material will progressively reduce their momentum, thus producing a redshift. Other proposals for explaining how photons could lose energy included the scattering of light by intervening material in a process similar to observed interstellar reddening. However, all these processes would also tend to blur images of distant objects, and no such blurring has been detected. [3]

Tired light has been found incompatible with the observed time dilation that is associated with the cosmological redshift. This idea is mostly remembered as a falsified alternative explanation for Hubble's Law in most astronomy or cosmology discussions.

[edit] Dirac large numbers hypothesis
Main article: Dirac large numbers hypothesis
The Dirac large numbers hypothesis uses the ratio of the size of the visible universe to the radius of quantum particle to predict the age of the universe. The coincidence of various ratios being close in order of magnitude may ultimately prove meaningless or the indication of a deeper connection between concepts in a future theory of everything. Nevertheless, attempts to use such ideas have been criticized as numerology.

[edit] Redshift periodicity and intrinsic redshifts

Halton Arp in London, Oct 2000Main article: redshift quantization
Main article: intrinsic redshifts
Similar to tired light models discussed above, there has been a minority of observational astrophysicists unconvinced that the cosmological redshifts were associated with a universal cosmological expansion. Edwin Hubble himself, while acknowledging that the preponderance of the theoretical evidence seemed to favor the work of the universal expansion maintained that more corroborating observational evidence was needed before alternative theoretical explanations for the redshift-distance relation could be ruled out. While the cosmic microwave background was often cited as such evidence, skepticism and alternative explanations from the steady state community through the 1960s and on into the 1970s meant that not everyone was totally convinced the expansion of the universe had been verified.

In particular, Geoffrey Burbidge, William Tifft and Halton Arp were all observational astrophysicists who proposed that there were inconsistencies in the redshift observations of galaxies and quasars. The first two were famous for suggesting that there were periodicities in the redshift distributions of galaxies and quasars. Close statistical analyses of redshift surveys today seem to indicate that there is no more periodicity than can be accounted for by large-scale structure of the cosmos.

During the quasar controversies of the 1970s, these same astronomers were also of the opinion that quasars exhibited high redshifts not due to their incredible distance but rather due to an unexplained "intrinsic redshift" mechanisms that would cause the periodicities and cast doubt on the Big Bang. Arguments over how distant quasars were took the form of debates surrounding quasar energy production mechanisms, their light curves, and whether quasars exhibited any proper motion. Astronomers who believed quasars were not at cosmological distances argued that the Eddington luminosity set limits on how distant the quasars could be since the energy output required to explain the apparent brightness of cosmologically-distant quasars was far too high to be explainable by nuclear fusion alone. This objection was made moot by the improved models of gravity-powered accretion disks which for sufficiently dense material (such as black holes) can be more efficient at energy production than nuclear reactions. The controversy was laid to rest by the 1990s when evidence became available that indicated quasars were actually the ultra-luminous cores of distant active galactic nuclei and that the major components of their redshift were in fact due to the Hubble flow.

Halton Arp continues to maintain that there are anomalies in his observing of quasars and galaxies that serve as a refutation of the Big Bang. Arp has made observations of correlations between quasars and (relatively) nearby AGN claiming that clusters of quasars have been observed in alignment around AGN cores. Arp believes that quasars originate as very high redshift objects ejected from the nuclei of active galaxies and gradually lose their non-cosmological redshift component as they evolve into galaxies.[4] This stands in stark contradiction to the accepted models of galaxy formation.

The biggest problem with Arp's analysis is that today there are tens of thousands of quasars with known redshifts discovered by various sky surveys. The vast majority of these quasars are not correlated in any way with nearby AGN. Indeed, with improved observing techniques, a number of host galaxies have been observed around quasars which indicates that those quasars at least really are at cosmological distances and are not the kind of objects Arp proposes.[5] Arp's analysis, according to most scientists, suffers from being based on small number statistics and hunting for peculiar coincidences and odd associations.[citation needed] In a vast universe such as our own, peculiarities and oddities are bound to appear if one looks in enough places. Unbiased samples of sources, taken from numerous galaxy surveys of the sky show none of the proposed 'irregularities' nor any statistically significant correlations exist.[citation needed]

In addition, it is not clear what mechanism would be responsible for intrinsic redshifts, or its supposed gradual dissipation over time. It is also unclear how nearby quasars would explain some features in the spectrum of quasars which the standard model easily explains. In the standard cosmology, clouds of neutral hydrogen between the quasar and the earth create Lyman alpha absorption lines having different redshifts up to that of the quasar itself; this feature is called the Lyman-alpha forest. Moreover, in extreme quasars one can observe the absorption of neutral hydrogen which has not yet been reionized in a feature known as the Gunn-Peterson trough. Most cosmologists see this missing theoretical work as sufficient reason to explain the observations as either chance or error.[6]

Halton Arp believes the best explanation for his observations is a "Variable mass hypothesis", which has its foundations within the frame of Machian physics. The variable-mass theory invokes constant matter creation from active galactic nuclei, which puts it into the class of steady-state theory.

[edit] Plasma cosmology and ambiplasma
Main article: plasma cosmology
In 1965, Hannes Alfvén proposed a "plasma cosmology" theory of the universe based in part on scaling observations of astrophysical plasmas from in situ space physics experiments and plasmas from terrestrial laboratories to cosmological scales orders-of-magnitude greater.[7] Utilizing matter-antimatter symmetry as a starting point, Alfvén suggested that the fact that since most of the local universe was composed of matter and not antimatter there may be large bubbles of matter and antimatter that would globally balance to equality (in what he termed an "ambiplasma"). The difficulties with this model were apparent almost immediately. Matter-antimatter annihilation results in the production of high energy photons which were not observed. While it was possible that the local "matter-dominated" cell was simply larger than the observable universe, this proposition did not lend itself to observational tests.

Like the steady state theory, plasma cosmology includes a Strong Cosmological Principle which assumes that the universe is isotropic in time as well as in space. Matter is explicitly assumed to have always existed, or at least that it formed at a time so far in the past as to be forever beyond humanity's empirical methods of investigation.

While plasma cosmology has never had the support of most astronomers or physicists, a small number of plasma researchers have continued to promote and develop the approach, and publish in the special issues of the IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science.[8] A few papers regarding plasma cosmology were published in other mainstream journals until the 1990s. Additionally, in 1991, Eric J. Lerner, an independent researcher in plasma physics and nuclear fusion, wrote a popular-level book supporting plasma cosmology called The Big Bang Never Happened. At that time there was renewed interest in the subject among the cosmological community along with other non-standard cosmologies. This was due to anomalous results reported in 1987 by Andrew Lange and Paul Richardson of UC Berkeley and Toshio Matsumoto of Nagoya University that indicated the cosmic microwave background might not have a blackbody spectrum. However, the final announcement (in April 1992) of COBE satellite data corrected the earlier contradiction of the Big Bang; the level of interest in plasma cosmology has since fallen such that little research is now conducted.

[edit] Nucleosynthesis objections to non-standard cosmologies
One of the major successes of the Big Bang theory has been to provide a prediction that corresponds to the observations of the abundance of light elements in the universe. Along with the explanation provided for the Hubble's law and for the cosmic microwave background, this observation has proved very difficult for alternative theories to explain.

Theories which assert that the universe has an infinite age, including many of the theories described above, fail to account for the abundance of deuterium in the cosmos, because deuterium easily undergoes nuclear fusion in stars and there are no known astrophysical processes other than the Big Bang itself that can produce it in large quantities. Hence the fact that deuterium is not an extremely rare component of the universe suggests that the universe has a finite age.

Theories which assert that the universe has a finite life but that the Big Bang did not happen have problems with the abundance of helium-4. The observed amount of 4He is far larger than the amount that should have been created via stars or any other known process. By contrast, the abundance of 4He in Big Bang models is very insensitive to assumptions about baryon density, changing only a few percent as the baryon density changes by several orders of magnitude. The observed value of 4He appears to be within the range calculated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_cosmology

Ahora si Ud. lo que quiere es que se aparezca un forista astrofísico o cosmólogo en un foro de religión que le explique en términos físicos o cuánticos estas teorías ........ lo veo mal
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

en realidad es en donde se diga, el articulo original indexado plase

Ud. cree que no lo hay?
alguien ha presentado un "artículo orginal indexado" aquí de Georges Le maitre?........... venga traigalo. O esa prueba es solo requerida a los herejes del Big Bang?......

Vamos joseleg.... Ud. había dado muestras de ser bastante honesto al menos en la discusión paleontológica......... puede señalar aquí Ud. algo de lo que yo he dicho que sea incorrecto?............
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

la mayoria de las alternativas tienen problemas con el deuterio y el helio cuatro. Que ligereza!! de su parte (si entienden el doble sentido)

One of the major successes of the Big Bang theory has been to provide a prediction that corresponds to the observations of the abundance of light elements in the universe. Along with the explanation provided for the Hubble's law and for the cosmic microwave background, this observation has proved very difficult for alternative theories to explain.
Theories which assert that the universe has an infinite age, including many of the theories described above, fail to account for the abundance of deuterium in the cosmos, because deuterium easily undergoes nuclear fusion in stars and there are no known astrophysical processes other than the Big Bang itself that can produce it in large quantities. Hence the fact that deuterium is not an extremely rare component of the universe suggests that the universe has a finite age.
Theories which assert that the universe has a finite life but that the Big Bang did not happen have problems with the abundance of helium-4. The observed amount of 4He is far larger than the amount that should have been created via stars or any other known process. By contrast, the abundance of 4He in Big Bang models is very insensitive to assumptions about baryon density, changing only a few percent as the baryon density changes by several orders of magnitude. The observed value of 4He appears to be within the range calculated.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

la mayoria de las alternativas tienen problemas con el deuterio y el helio cuatro. Que ligereza!! de su parte (si entienden el doble sentido)

One of the major successes of the Big Bang theory has been to provide a prediction that corresponds to the observations of the abundance of light elements in the universe. Along with the explanation provided for the Hubble's law and for the cosmic microwave background, this observation has proved very difficult for alternative theories to explain.
Theories which assert that the universe has an infinite age, including many of the theories described above, fail to account for the abundance of deuterium in the cosmos, because deuterium easily undergoes nuclear fusion in stars and there are no known astrophysical processes other than the Big Bang itself that can produce it in large quantities. Hence the fact that deuterium is not an extremely rare component of the universe suggests that the universe has a finite age.
Theories which assert that the universe has a finite life but that the Big Bang did not happen have problems with the abundance of helium-4. The observed amount of 4He is far larger than the amount that should have been created via stars or any other known process. By contrast, the abundance of 4He in Big Bang models is very insensitive to assumptions about baryon density, changing only a few percent as the baryon density changes by several orders of magnitude. The observed value of 4He appears to be within the range calculated.

Palabra de Dios.......... te alabamos señor

ESO HACE AL BIG BANG UN HECHO?
responda

........y tranquilo que hay literatura de sobra........ si Ud. se enfoca en buscar los estudios que lo respaldan pues jamás podra evaluar los estudios que lo cuestionan.

EN ESO CONSISTE LA CIENCIA........... O NO?
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

como siempre, ya se convirtió esto en un asunto de "bandos".

como hace falta la objetividad del forista watcher y robinson
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Palabra de Dios.......... te alabamos señor

ESO HACE AL BIG BANG UN HECHO?
responda

........y tranquilo que hay literatura de sobra........ si Ud. se enfoca en buscar los estudios que lo respaldan pues jamás podra evaluar los estudios que lo cuestionan.

EN ESO CONSISTE LA CIENCIA........... O NO?

no, en realidad el asunto del hecilo y el deuterio es el cuervo blanco que fastidia a las alternativas, y hace al big bang solo un poquito mas probable, pero nada mas. Parafraseando a Popper, avanzamos encontrando lo falso, mas no lo verdadero.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

no, en realidad el asunto del hecilo y el deuterio es el cuervo blanco que fastidia a las alternativas, y hace al big bang solo un poquito mas probable, pero nada mas. Parafraseando a Popper, avanzamos encontrando lo falso, mas no lo verdadero.

por cierto sería bueno ver las pruebas originales indexadas respecto al hecilo y al deuterio.

Ahora, recuerde que si Arp tiene razón respecto a los redshifts.......... puede haber todo el hecilo y el duterio que guste.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

por cierto sería bueno ver las pruebas originales indexadas respecto al hecilo y al deuterio.

Ahora, recuerde que si Arp tiene razón respecto a los redshifts.......... puede haber todo el hecilo y el duterio que guste.

pues no son las mismas que usted trajo?, lo del helio y el deuterio lo sque de la misma pagina.

Hablando en serio, miremos pues cuales son los articulos originales que respaldan lo de las reshifts, luego yo mostraré los articulos que lo critican y así ambos aprenderemos sobre bigbang.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

pues no son las mismas que usted trajo?, lo del helio y el deuterio lo sque de la misma pagina.

Hablando en serio, miremos pues cuales son los articulos originales que respaldan lo de las reshifts, luego yo mostraré los articulos que lo critican y así ambos aprenderemos sobre bigbang.

Vamos por lo mismo.

Lo primero que habría que entender , si es que alguna vez lo podremos hacer es si en efecto la observación de Hubble es válida. En todo caso lo que habría que traer son las indexaciones de ésta observación, como fue "observada" y en que se sustenta.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Vamos por lo mismo.

Lo primero que habría que entender , si es que alguna vez lo podremos hacer es si en efecto la observación de Hubble es válida. En todo caso lo que habría que traer son las indexaciones de ésta observación, como fue "observada" y en que se sustenta.

creo que este puede ser útil

http://www.pnas.org/content/101/1/8.full
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Por lo que veo, si hay varios cuervos blancos en el big bang, pero bueno, se tendrá que esperar a tener mas datos.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Por lo que veo, si hay varios cuervos blancos en el big bang, pero bueno, se tendrá que esperar a tener mas datos.


que necio es Ud. :)
Efectivamente, la evolucion tiene ya tantas pruebas a su favor que es necio y entorpecedor seguir cuestionando su ocurrencia y querer hacer un sin fin de ejemplos para convencerse, mejor dedican el tiempo a investigar cuales son sus fenomenos y causas.

Y tambien podemos aplicar este modelo con el Big Bang tan atacado por la ignorancia, la evidencia a su favor ya es demasiado pesada, tanto fisica como matematica y pues lo unico que queda seria complementar el modelo del BB a algo mas complejo pero del mismo principio, no va a llegar otra cosa a desdecirlo y girarlo 180°.



así que deje de andar diciendo necedades como ésta:

...... hace al big bang solo un poquito mas probable, pero nada mas. Parafraseando a Popper, avanzamos encontrando lo falso, mas no lo verdadero.

......... Que ligereza!! de su parte (si entienden el doble sentido).

de parte de quién???? :rana:
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

bueno, no es que sea muy explicativo. a demás existen varios articulos que detallan las dificultades del modelo cosmologico actual de modo mas amigable.

este si es bonito

http://journalofcosmology.com/BigBang101.html

bien!
Modelo....... mejor que teoría incluso............. al menos en este caso.

Respecto al artículo que traje es a colación de lo siguiente:

The Redshift.
A large number of redshift observations cannot be explained by the Doppler theory. Astronomer Halton Arp's 1987 book "Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies" provides an extensive review of them, as does a lengthy 1989 review article by the Indian astrophysicist J. V. Narlikar. A catalogue of 780 references to redshift observations inexplicable by the Doppler effect was published in 1981 by K. J. Reboul under the title, "Untrivial Redshifts: A Bibliographical Catalogue". Many other papers indicate that non-velocity produced redshifts have been observed.
A non-Doppler interpretation of the redshift actually leads to better agreement of theory with the actual observations, as shown below.

Seguiré intentando a ver si encuentro el ampliado y la documentación.

.........en efecto........ cuervos blancos.

Le pregunto: es acaso un pecado ilustrarse acerca de los cuestionamientos que se hacen al Big Bang y/o a la observación de Hubble?...... Acaso la ciencia es dogmática y debemos sujetarnos ciegamente a creer que en efecto el BB es un hecho INCUESTIONABLE?
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

...................pero bueno, se tendrá que esperar a tener mas datos.
:pcheers3:
por fin entiende mi punto:

Las teorías y las investigaciones son muy respetables, pero no podemos andar alegremente por ahí dejando a Popper de lado y pretendiendo conocimientos dogmáticos.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> ¿Cómo se demuestra, por la existencia del universo, la existencia deDios?

R. La razón nos dice que no hay efecto sin causa.
Vemos un edificio, un cuadro, una estatua: al punto se nos ocurre la idea de un constructor, de un pintor, de un escultor, que hayan hecho esas obras.



Del mismo modo, al contemplar el cielo, la tierra y todo cuanto existe, pensamos que todo ello debe tener una causa; y esa causa primera del mundo, le llamamos Dios: Luego por la existencia del universo, podemos demostrar la existencia de Dios.


En efecto:
1º El universo no ha podido hacerse a sí mismo.
2º No es fruto de la casualidad.
3º No ha existido siempre.


Luego debe la existencia a un Ser supremo y distinto de él.


1º El universo no ha podido hacerse a sí mismo, porque lo que no existe, no puede obrar, y consiguientemente, no puede darse la existencia. El ser que no existe, es nada, y la nada, nada produce.
2º El universo no es fruto de la casualidad, porque la casualidad no existe, y por
lo tanto, nada puede producir. La casualidad es una palabra que el hombre ha inventado para ocultar su ignorancia y para explicar los hechos cuyas causas desconoce.
3º El universo no ha existido siempre. Así lo reconocen a una todas las ciencias;
la geología, la astronomía, la biología, etc., todas sostienen que el mundo tuvo quetener un principio.
Tres caracteres señala la Filosofía al ser eterno: es necesario, inmutable e infinito.



Ahora bien:


1º El mundo es material, y el ser material no puede ser necesario. Ninguna
de sus partes existe necesariamente, pues se puede prescindir perfectamente de
ésta o aquélla. Una montaña, o un río, o un árbol, podrían no existir. Luego si ninguna de las partes es de por sí necesaria, tampoco será necesario el todo.

2º El mundo no es inmutable. Si contemplamos la naturaleza material que
nos rodea, vemos que en ella todo nace, todo perece, todo se renueva: las plantas, los animales, el hombre


3º El mundo no es infinito, pues siempre es posible suponer un mundo más
hermoso y más perfecto que el que existe. Por consiguiente tampoco es eterno,
porque la eternidad – que es una perfección infinita – sólo puede hallarse en un ser infinito.
Si, pues, el mundo no ha existido siempre, entonces es una obra que supone un
obrero de la misma manera que el reloj supone un relojero, etc.

CONCLUSIÓN: La existencia del universo demuestra la existencia de un Ser
Supremo, causa primera de todos los seres. Ese ser supremo es DIOS
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Si - yo Creo:
Creo en Dios Padre, En Su Hijo Jesucristo y El Espíritu Santo

Además creo FIRMEMENTE que le es posible a Dios arrancar ese corazón de piedra que mucha gente tiene y cambiarlo por uno de carne y sangre.

ESO es lo que llamo evolución …

En Cristo
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Una vez que les he traido la explicacion de alguien mas iminente en la materia que cualquier partidiario del foro ahora les traigo una de las opiniones del otro bando, de un catolico sobre los fenomenos que los creacionistas gustan de negar sin base alguna.


Traduccion.


Significa que no porque sea un Big Bang no por eso tiene que ir en contra de las creencias sino todo lo contrario, es mas intrincado e incluso demostraria mas la omnipotencia del supuesto dios un evento infinitamente poderoso como un Big Bang o la evolucion que el simple relato del Genesis donde todo se crea espontaneamente, personalmente no creo en un dios pero no me importaria que los creacionistas dijeran que el Big Bang, la evolucion o lo que sea que nieguen, es obra de su dios, no me importaria siempre y cuando dejen de poner trabas para que no se difunda el conocimiento.

Qué trabas,si desde hace muchos años que se enseña la evolución como si fuera una verdad cierta o un hecho irrefutable, lo cual es falso.
Se enseña un cuento como si fuera un hecho.

El big bang me parece ilógico y muy poco científico.

Lo que llamas conocimiento són sólo propuestas, filosofía.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Bueno, ya que somkos tan habidos de señalar los sofismas, lo que usted acaba de escribir es un gigantesco muñeco de paja.

1- hasta donde se puede tener registro, la materia se tarnsforma, no se crea

Entonces no existe fundamento para el big bang...aunque algunos dicen que es un hecho irrefutable...

2- toda materia tiene orden y leyes, tanto fisicas como quimicas, aun la quimica uinorganica es tremendamente determinista y siigue leyes fijas, hey!! parece que se les olvbidara lo fijo que es la formacion de acidos hidroxidos y sales en disolución, ni que de cir de mezclas complejas que deben seguir equilibrios quimicos simultaneos, pero fijos.
Por supuesto, y hay muchas otras leyes además, el asunto es: imaginas que todo este ordenamiento tan complejo se produce espontáneamente y sin ninguna razón?
Eso es ilógico...al final, después de tantas teorías, experimentos, tratados, estudios, hipótesis, seudoevidencias, etc., el fundamento último de las teorías del big bang, la abiogenesis y la evolución es un absurdo.