¿Crees en la evolucion?

¿Crees en la evolucion?


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Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Entonces todas las teorías científicas surgen de la filosofía?? Quiero decir, llamar filosofía a cualquier teoría científica es un error.

Al contrario.....

Pretender que la ciencia , aún la epistemología no es filosofía es el error.

No ha escuchado Ud. nunca la frase: "La filosofía es la madre de todas la ciencias"?

El método científico no surge sino es por un ordenamiento estructurado de las ideas.

Ciertamente joseleg tiene razon, las personas creacionistas (en este caso de la ciencia) son divertidos! creen que la ciencia surgió por que sí.......... como una verdad revelada, cuando en realidad es producto de la evolución, en este caso del pensamiento humano.

También me causa gracia que sé que no todos entenderán el sarcasmo
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Continuamos.



Traduccion.


Efectivamente, la evolucion tiene ya tantas pruebas a su favor que es necio y entorpecedor seguir cuestionando su ocurrencia y querer hacer un sin fin de ejemplos para convencerse, mejor dedican el tiempo a investigar cuales son sus fenomenos y causas.

Bravo por camaronero! Paradójicamente ha ganado el título de lanzar la frase más anticientífica de todo el tema!

VIVA EL CAMARONERO!
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Y tambien podemos aplicar este modelo con el Big Bang tan atacado por la ignorancia, la evidencia a su favor ya es demasiado pesada, tanto fisica como matematica y pues lo unico que queda seria complementar el modelo del BB a algo mas complejo pero del mismo principio, no va a llegar otra cosa a desdecirlo y girarlo 180°.

Crisis in cosmology stirs emotional debate

Written by Carmelo Amalfi
Tuesday, 25 November 2008 14:55

"The big bang theory is a house of tissue paper that is about to collapse under its own weight." - American physicist David Dilworth

FROM September 7 to 11, around 50 Big Bang dissidents met at the Red Lion Hotel in Port Angeles, Washington, in the US. They discussed problems facing the standard big bang model of the structure and origin of the universe and offered a number of other options.

The Alternative Cosmology Group (ACG) meeting coincided with the commissioning of Europe's Large Hadron Collider at CERN, in Geneva, Switzerland and University of WA physics professor John Hartnett attended the meeting.

Although weird and wonderful alternatives to the big bang theory have been suggested, the Alternative Cosmology Group believes the most important thing is to first analyse gaps in current understanding by questioning the status quo / Image: IstockphotoAccording to Prof Hartnett, there was a lot of emotion expressed at the meeting, with most agreeing that the standard model is a poor description of the universe when compared to what is actually observed. Something better is needed. And that's where things get interesting.
Professor Hartnett says alternative models suggested ranged from a universe with no beginning or end, to one that was static and did not expand, while others were postulated existing inside shells of matter and energy."There was one scientist who presented what he called the eternally collapsing universe," he says.
"I am not sure if, experimentally, this model is useful because the experiment needed to observe it would be collapsing.

"Another guy represented the quasi-steady state model that has an eternal universe undergoing a series of quasi contractions - not to a singularity, but to a highly dense, pulsating state. We are supposedly in the expansion stage."

As far out as some of these theories seemed, he says they reflect the growing number of scientists who publicly and privately are questioning the cosmological status quo.

Professor Hartnett says this is what science is supposed to be about, questioning and testing. He warns that many scientists who doubt the big bang fear saying so because it could cost them their funding, or reputations.
The ACG formed a few years ago with a general mission statement as an Open Letter published in New Scientist magazine. Hundreds of top names have added their support since the letter was published, including several from WA.

Its central claim of peer prejudice is, "…virtually all financial and experimental resources in cosmology are devoted to big bang studies. Funding comes from only a few sources and all the peer-review committees which control them are dominated by supporters of the big bang. As a result, the dominance of the big bang within the field has become self-sustaining, irrespective of the scientific validity of the theory.".
US physicist Eric J. Lerner said “Conventional cosmology says that the cosmic background radiation should look symmetric on the sky, but it does not; the universe at high redshift (very young age) should look different from the present day universe, but it looks about the same. Huge superclusters of galaxies have not had time to form since the big bang, the predictions of light elements abundances are wrong, and there’s no dark matter in some places where conventional cosmology says there should be.”.

A principal research fellow with the UWA frequency standards and metrology research group at UWA, Professor Hartnett's research work was presented at the ACG meeting and includes the development of stable microwave oscillators based on sapphire resonators, ultra low-noise radar and tests of fundamental theories of physics such as special and general relativity.

He has co-written two books, Dismantling the Big Bang and Starlight Time and The New Physics, and has published more than 80 papers in international journals.
Professor Hartnett says the success of the recent meeting was not in attacking the big bang but in highlighting some of the anomalies in the standard model of the universe.

"On one day, we opened the floor to alternative models. Every person who got up presented a different model and that doesn't help," he says.

"It was agreed in the end that the best approach is not to look at every alternative model but at individual lines of evidence and try and make sense of them. Down the track, maybe the best model will come out of it."
Additional information about the ACG is available at www.cosmology.info .

http://www.sciencewa.net.au/index.ph...&Itemid=200079


Published by: 21st Century, Science and Technology, P.O. Box, 17285, Washington, D.C. 20041. Vol. 3, No. 2 Spring 1990, P. 52-59.

More and more astronomical evidence shows the weaknesses of the theory stating that the universe started with a Big Bang. A Canadian Astrophysicist presents this evidence and explains how the cosmic redshift is caused by gaseous matter in space.
Caption for Crab Nebula.
Interstellar matter, seen here in the Crab Nebula in Taurus, has its counterpart on a larger scale in the rarefied intergalactic medium. The intergalactic medium was first shown to exist in the 1970s. It is impossible, the author says, for the light we see from distant galaxies not to interact with this medium as it passes through it.
1 --- Introduction.
We are all so accustomed to reading that the universe "began" once a time with the Big Bang that most people no longer think it necessary to question or scrutinize it. A detailed analysis of the Big Bang theory, however, leads to consequences and implications that are inconsistent, or are contradicted by astrophysical observations, including important ones.
At the same time, one of the pillars of the model, the all important cosmic redshift- the shifting of spectral lines toward the red end of the spectrum, in proportion to the distance of the source from us- can be explained without invoking the Doppler velocity interpretation(1) so dear to Big Bang theorists. The redshift is explained instead by taking the intergalactic medium into account, and correcting our understanding of how light interacts with such a medium on its way to the observer. Two different theoretical approaches, semi classical electrodynamics and quantum electrodynamics, have shown that all interactions or collisions of electrodynamics waves (photons) with atoms are inelastic; that is, the photons lose a very small part of their energy as a result of the interaction. Hence, the greater the depth of the intergalactic medium through which a galaxy's light must pass, the more toward the low-energy end of the spectrum - that is, toward the red - is the light frequency shifted.
These considerations eliminate the limit on the size of the universe imposed by the Big Bang theory. Indeed one can say that the universe far greater than imagined.

2 --- The Big Bang Universe.
It is widely believed among scientists that the universe originated from an extremely dense concentration of material. The original expansion of this material is described as the Big Bang. Although the primeval soup is thought to have originated at zero volume, quantum physics considerations require that it could not be described before its diameter in centimeter reached about 10-33 (that is, 1-billion-trillion-trillionth cm). This means that the universe, then expanding at near the speed of light, was about 10-43 second old.
After that instant, according to the Big Bang theory, the universe kept expanding and became many billions of billions of times (on the order of 1020 times) larger and older, until it reached the size of an electron that has a radius of approximately 10-13 cm, when the universe was 10-23 second old. During the following 15 billion years, according to the theory, the universe expanded to a radius of 15 billion light-years to the size it is claimed today. (A light-year, the distance traversed by light in a vacuum in one year, is 9.5 ´ 1012 kilometers.)

The author (center) with the organizers of the Feb. 1989 Plasma Universe conference in La Jolla, Calif., Nobel laureate Hannes Alfvén (right) and Anthony Peratt of Los Alamos National Laboratory (left).

These are the dimensions and time scale required by the Big bang model, a model that has certainly not been accepted by all scientists because it leads to insurmountable difficulties. Prominent scientists like R. L. Millikan and Edwin Hubble thought that the Big Bang model created more problems for cosmology than it solved, and that photon energy loss was a simpler and "less irrational" explanation of the redshift than its interpretation as a Doppler effect caused by recessional velocity, in keeping with the Big Bang (Reber 1989; Hubble 1937).

In more recent years, Nobel Laureate Hannes Alfvén, and other students of astrophysical plasma have challenged the Big Bang with an alternative conception called Plasma Universe. In this cosmology, the universe has always existed and has never been concentrated in a point; galaxies and clusters of galaxies are shaped not only by gravity, but by electrical and magnetic fields over longer times that available in the Big Bang model (Peratt 1988, 1989; Bostick 1989).
From its birth in the 1930s, the Big Bang theory has been a subject of Controversy (Reber 1989, Cherry 1989). Indeed, our view of the universe must always be open to consideration and reconsideration.
This article will demonstrate that the big bang model is physically unacceptable because it is incompatible with important observations. Severe philosophical problems with the Big Bang are also brought up (see Maddox 1989). Science, however, is dedicated to the discovery of the causes of observed phenomena; the Big Bang model thus leads to the rejection of the principle of causality that is fundamental in philosophy as well as in physics. It is actually a creationist theory that differs from other creationisms (for example, one that claims creation took place about 4000 B.C.) only in the number of years since creation. According to the Big Bang model, creation occurred between 10 and 20 billion years ago.

3 --- Defective Evidence.
Support for the Big Bang theory has been built upon three main kinds of evidence:
First, the Big Bang assumes that the observable universe is expanding. Support for this is offered by interpreting the redshifts of remote galaxies and many other systems as Doppler shifts. Hence these redshifts would show that these systems are all flying away from each other.
Second, the Big bang theory predicts the cosmic abundance of some light elements like helium-4, deuterium, and lithium-7. The available evidence of cosmic abundances is said to confirm the predictions.
Third, Alpher, Bethe, and Gamow in 1948 used the Big bang theory to predict the existence of a low temperature background radiation throughout the universe at 25K as a relic of the initial Big Bang explosion. A background radiation at a temperature of about 3K (emitting radiation 5000 times less intense, see Planck's law) has indeed been discovered(2), and is being interpreted as the predicted relic.
The support afforded by the Big bang model by these three arguments is, however, only apparent and does not withstand a serious detailed analysis. In fact, the observational evidence from astrophysics is more in keeping with the model suggested by this author of a stable universe. Here, in brief, is the evidence from astrophysics:

The Redshift.
A large number of redshift observations cannot be explained by the Doppler theory. Astronomer Halton Arp's 1987 book "Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies" provides an extensive review of them, as does a lengthy 1989 review article by the Indian astrophysicist J. V. Narlikar. A catalogue of 780 references to redshift observations inexplicable by the Doppler effect was published in 1981 by K. J. Reboul under the title, "Untrivial Redshifts: A Bibliographical Catalogue". Many other papers indicate that non-velocity produced redshifts have been observed.
A non-Doppler interpretation of the redshift actually leads to better agreement of theory with the actual observations, as shown below.

Light Element Production.
It is not necessary to invoke a Big Bang in order to explain the observed abundances of light elements. A plasma model of galaxy formation accomplishes the task very well (Rees 1978; Lerner 1989). The plasma model shows that the elements are produced during galaxy formation in their observed abundances by early massive and intermediate stars. The nuclear reactions and cosmic rays generated in and by these stars lead to production of the elements. As a recent reviewer of plasma theory wrote, the plasma model: "accounts accurately for the observed overabundance of oxygen in the lowest metallicity stars, and deuterium, and does not over-produce the remaining rare light elements - lithium, beryllium, and boron" (Lerner 1989).

Cosmic Background Radiation.
The existence of the 3 K microwave radiation is no longer valid evidence for the Big Bang. There is no need to assume, as Big Bang believers do, that this background radiation came from a highly Doppler-redshifted blackbody(3)at about 3,000. K - that is, from the exploding ball of matter - when its density became low enough for energy and matter to decouple. The background radiation is simply Planck's blackbody radiation emitted by our unlimited universe that is also at a temperature of about 3 K (Marmet 1988).
The inhomogeneity of matter in the universe today means that there should be some inhomogeneity in the cosmic background radiation if it originated in a Big Bang. But no fundamental inhomogeneity in the background has been clearly found, despite tests that are sensitive down to small scales. Matter is concentrated in galaxies, in clusters and super clusters of galaxies, and in what has been called the Great Attractor (a tentatively identified but huge concentration of mass centered 150 million light-years away). These important inhomogeneities in the composition of the universe as we see it today must have first appeared in the early universe (if it exists). In fact, a comparable inhomogeneity must have existed in the matter that emitted the 3 K radiation. That inhomogeneity must appear as a distortion in the Hubble flow(4) (Dressler 1989) and must lead to observable irregularities in the 3 K background. Inhomogeneities in the 3 K radiation have been looked for but nothing is compatible with the mass observed in the Great Attractor. A. E. Lange recently reported that there is no observable inhomogeneity even with a resolution of 10 seconds of arc and a sensitivity in temperature as high as DT=± 0.00001 K (Lange 1989).
Nor can Einstein's general theory of relativity be applied in a consistent manner to the Big Bang model. According to the model, when the universe was the size of an electron and was 10-23 second old, it was clearly a black hole - a concentration of mass so great that its self-gravitation would prevent the escape of any mass or radiation. Consequently, according to Einsteinian relativity, it could not have expanded. Therefore, one would have to assume that gravity started to exist only gradually after the creation of the universe, but that amounts to changing the laws of physics arbitrarily to save the Big Bang model. In contrast, a stable universe as suggested here agrees with Einstein's relativity theory, taking into account the cosmological constant(5) he proposed in 1917.
Recent astronomical discoveries pose an additional and very serious problem for the Big Bang theory. Larger and larger structures are being found to exist at greater and greater redshifts, indicating their existence in the increasingly distant past. (Whether one assumes the Big Bang or the theory presented here, the redshift is normally an indicator of distances, and because it takes time for light to travel, the image of a highly redshifted object is seen on Earth today as it was when the light began to travel.)
In 1988, Simon Lilly of the university of Hawaii reported the discovery of a mature galaxy at the enormous redshift of 3.4; that is, the amount of the redshift for any spectral line from the galaxy is 340 per cent of the line's proper wavelength (Lilly 1988). This puts the galaxy so far in time that the Big Bang scheme does not allow sufficient time for its formation! In a news report on Lilly's work, Sky & Telescope reports: "The appearance of a mature galaxy so soon after the Big Bang poses a serious threat . . ." (Aug. 1988, p. 124).
In 1989 came the discovery of the "Great Wall" of galaxies, a sheet of Galaxies 500 million light-years long, 200 million light-years wide, and approximately 15 million light-years thick, with the dimensions of the structure being limited only by the scale of the survey (Geller and Huchra 1989). It is located between 200 and 300 million light-years from Earth. In an interview with the Boston Globe (Nov. 17 1989), Margaret Geller of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics offered some frank comments on the implications of her discovery:

The size of the structure indicates that in present theories of the formation of the universe "something is really wrong that makes a big difference,"
Geller said in an interview:
No known force could produce a structure this big in the time since the universe was formed", She said.
4 --- The Redshift and the Intergalactic Medium.
All the observed phenomena cited above can be explained without recourse to the Big Bang theory. But what about the cosmic redshift, the central subject of this article? This author has explained the cosmic redshift by improving our understanding of the interaction of light with atoms and molecules. The observational fact upon which Big Bang advocates and opponents agree is that the redshift of galaxies generally increases with distance. This relationship would arise if the light we receive from galaxies loses some of its energy to the intergalactic medium through which it must pass. In that case, the greater the depth of the intergalactic medium between a galaxy and the observer, the more its light is shifted toward the low-energy (red) end of the spectrum.
A redshift from the interaction of photons with atoms in the galactic and intergalactic media was previously denied: Most scientists are accustomed to thinking that when photons interact with the medium through which they pass, losing some energy in the process, some significant angular dispersion of the photons must result. Most of the light from other galaxies, they say, cannot undergo any appreciable interaction with the intervening medium, because the resulting angular dispersion would cause their images to become blurred, and our images of other galaxies are, indeed, not blurred.
The usual explanation of how light travels through gases, however, is inconsistent and incomplete. Physicists understand that when a beam of light passes through the atmosphere, a fraction of the photons interacts with the medium and loses energy to it, undergoing angular dispersion. This is known as Rayleigh scattering after British physicist John Rayleigh. Most physicists assume that the rest of the light, which suffers no dispersion, passes through the medium without interaction. Given the density of the atoms and molecules of the atmosphere, however, this is clearly impossible.
A more sensible conclusion is that most interactions involve an atom or molecule absorbing a photon and reemitting it in the forward direction. We shall see that these interactions are inelastic; that is, the reemitted photons have lost some of the original energy to the atom or molecule, and hence their wavelengths are longer (redder) (Marmet 1988); (Marmet and Reber (1989). The familiar concept of the index of refraction exposes the problem to view. The velocity of light (group velocity) is reduced in gases, relative to its velocity in a vacuum, as expressed by the index of refraction. The derivation of the index of refraction assumes that matter is homogenous and that one neglects the existence of individual atoms. The reduced velocity applies to all of the light. At atmospheric pressure, one does not easily notice this reduced speed of propagation in air, precisely because almost all photons are transmitted without angular dispersion (scattering).
At a distance of 100 meters, for example, it is everyday experience that light is transmitted through calm air without any noticeable angular dispersion and does not produce any visible fuzziness - even when images are observed through a telescope. The index of refraction of air (n=1.0003) shows that interactions or collisions of photons on air molecules are such that the photons are delayed by 3 centimeter in a trajectory of 100 meters, with respect to transmission in a vacuum (see Figure 1). Only that small delay of 3 cm can be explained by a large number of photon-molecule collisions.


Figure 1

MOST PHOTONS DO NOT UNDERGO ANGULAR DISPERSION WHEN THEY INTERACT WITH MOLECULES.
Light transmitted through air is slowed by its interaction with air molecules. In the same time, that light traverses 100 meters in a vacuum (a), it traverses only 99.97 meters in air (b). This is expressed in the index of refraction for air, 1.0003. Many photon-molecule interactions are required to explain such a long delay. Since an object seen at 100 meters is not fuzzy, one must conclude that these photon-molecule interactions do not lead to angular dispersion of most of the light, although this is still the common assumption. In fact, the photons must be reemitted from such interactions in the forward direction.

A delay of 3 cm corresponds to about one billion the size of the atom. Therefore we can be sure that not only all photons had more than one interaction with air molecules, but that it must take on the order of one billion collisions to produce such a delay. The photons have undergone about one billion collisions with air molecules without any significant angular dispersion, because the image is not fuzzy. Photon-molecule collision without angular dispersion is an everyday experience that has been completely overlooked.
In space, where the gas density is lower by more than 20 orders of magnitude, the same phenomenon takes place. A photon undergoes about one interaction (due to the index of refraction, with no angular dispersion) per week.; Rayleigh scattering producing diffusion in all directions, is enormously less frequent just as in the atmosphere. Hence, almost all interactions of photons with gas molecules take place without any measurable angular dispersion.

5 --- The Consequences of these Interactions.
What then are the consequences of these interactions? It is necessary to examine the character of photon collisions with individual atoms. We have just seen above that the collisions produce a delay in the transmission of light; Therefore, there is a finite interval of time during which the photons is absorbed before being reemitted.
An atom is polarized, in a transverse direction, by the passage of electromagnetic waves (photons) moving across it. The positively charged nucleus is attracted on one direction while the negatively charge surrounding electrons cloud is attracted in the other. In this field, at least a part of the energy of the electromagnetic wave is transmitted, in the axial direction, to the electron of the atom. This is called a polarized atom (with an energy of polarization). The momentum(6) of this transferred energy necessarily gives an acceleration to the electron, causing a secondary photon to be emitted, a phenomenon known as bremsstrahlung (braking radiation) (see Figure 2).


Figure 2
PHOTONS ALWAYS LOSE ENERGY INTERACTING WITH ATOMS.

It is a very rare physicist who recognizes that photons must always lose energy in interacting with atoms and molecules. The author demonstrates the truth of this assertion however in 1980, using semi classical electrodynamics to explain and calculate the energy loss. In the diagram, a photon is being absorbed and reemitted in the forward direction by an atom, which emits at least one very soft (long-wavelength) secondary photon in the process.
It has been calculated that under ordinary conditions, the energy loss per collision is about 10-13 of the energy of the incoming photon (Marmet 1988). Hence the phenomenon produces a redshift that follows the same rule as the Doppler effect: Whatever the wavelength emitted by the source, the relative change of wavelength is constant (Dl/l =constant). The secondary photon (bremsstrahlung photon), which carries away the lost energy, has a wavelength several thousand kilometers long. Because the longest wavelength observed so far in radio astronomy is 144 meters (Reber 1968, 1977), these secondary photons of very long wavelength cannot yet be detected. They are, however, predicted by electrodynamics theory.


CAPTION OF FIGURE 3
Marmet's photon-atom interaction theory mentioned above is the only "non ad-hoc" explanation predicting the amount and the rate of change of the solar redshift (solid line labeled Marmet). The experimentally determined redshift on the solar disk, moving from the disk's center (Sin q =0) to its limb (Sin q =1.0), is shown in the dotted and dashed curves. Observational values of Adam (1948) and Finlay-Freundlich (1954). The redshift is given in wavelength units of 10-13 meters on the y-axis. Other theories that attempt to explain this redshift as a Doppler effect produces the two upper curves: Schatzman and Magnan (1975), motion of gas in the solar granules) and Finlay-Freundlich (1954), motion in the photosphere and chromosphere). Allowances has been made for the differential Doppler shift arising from the Sun's rotation.

The conclusion that interactions of photons with atoms must always result in the production of secondary photons has been derived from quantum electrodynamics (Jauch and Rohlich 1980); Bethe and Salpeter (1957), and was independently derived by this author from classical electrodynamics (Marmet 1988). However, only the last-mentioned study was able to predict the amount of energy lost in the process.

6 --- Experimental Confirmation.
Experimental confirmation of the theory of the redshift developed here has been achieved in several instances, with observations of the Sun (Marmet 1989), binary stars, and other cases (Marmet 1988a; Marmet and Reber 1989). Perhaps the most dramatic of these confirmations is in the case of the Sun, where the theory has been applied to the redshift anomaly associated with the solar chromosphere. When spectroscopic measurements are made of light from the center of the Sun's disk and compared with those from the limb (edge of the disk), the latter are found to be redshifted with respect to the former - Above and beyond the Doppler shift that arise from the Sun's rotation. This anomaly was first reported in 1907, and has been confirmed by all experts in the field.
Attempts have been made to explain this redshift as a Doppler effect on the basis of the motion of masses of gas in the photosphere and chromosphere, or such motions in the solar granules (convection cells). The inadequate predictive power of these hypotheses can be seen in Figure 3. The figure shows the observed amount of the redshift as a function of the position between the center of the redshift as a function of position between the center of the Sun's disk and the limb, and compares this observed curve to the curves required by two of these theories.
If, however, the redshift arises from the increasing number of photon-atom interactions between source and observer as the spectroscope sample positions nearer the limb (Figure 4), the theory developed here applies, and provides an accurate prediction of the observed curve) Figure 3). The theory is also successful in explaining the absence of redshifting for several spectral lines in terms of their known origin in very high layers of the Sun, and in explaining a stronger redshift for the iron line at 5,250 angstroms in terms of its known origin in a deeper layer.

7 --- Is there Enough Matter in Space?
Is there enough matter in space to account for the observed redshift in terms of the theory offered here? An average concentration of about 0.01 atom/cm3 is required to produce the observed redshift, as given by the Hubble constant (Marmet 1988b). This required density of matter in space is larger than what has been measured experimentally until presently, but our ability to detect such matter is still very imperfect. Almost all of our methods of detection are selective and can detect only one kind of matter. Most methods use spectroscopy to detect radiation emitted or absorbed by the matter. There are strong reasons for thinking that there is much more matter in space than has been observed.
Although atomic hydrogen is found extensively in space and can be detected by the emission and absorption of its characteristic radiowaves of 12-cm wavelength, it is likely that cold atomic hydrogen condenses to the molecular form (H2), which must be also present extensively in space. Cold molecular hydrogen and helium, however, are undetectable at visible or radio wavelengths. Since molecular hydrogen (H2) has no permanent electric dipole(7), it does not easily emit or absorb radiation. Most excited molecules emit photons in about 10-8 second. However, the spontaneous emission of the first rotational state of molecular hydrogen is practically nonexistent (rotational states are different molecular energy levels) even after many thousands of years. A transition (by spontaneous emission) from the second rotational state of molecular hydrogen is relatively much more probable but would require about 30 billion seconds (about 1,000 years). That is about 18 orders of magnitude less probable than an ordinary dipole transition. At the sixth rotational state the quantum transition still takes as much as one year.
The extreme rarity of these "forbidden" transitions means that one cannot hope to detect molecular hydrogen spectroscopically. Only in the far ultraviolet portion of the spectrum can some molecular hydrogen be detected in the neighborhood of ultraviolet-emitting stars. Because of its nature, molecular hydrogen is very likely extremely abundant in space - but not detectable with methods now available.


Caption of Figure 4
Application of the Photon-Atom Interaction Theory to the Solar Redshift.
Light observed at the center of the solar disk along line of sight A, passes through an amount of solar atmosphere represented by "a". Light observed at the solar limb along line of sight B passes through a much larger amount of solar atmosphere represented by "b". (A and B converge at the observer). Hence the photon-atom interaction theory predicts an increasing redshift toward the limb.


There are other indications of large amounts of invisible matter in the universe. For example, it has been unexpectedly discovered that the matter in galaxies may extend to as much as 10 times the radius of its visible component. This possibility arises from the study of differential rotational velocity of the matter in galaxies. From the laws of orbital motion, we expect the orbital velocity of matter (in kilometers per second, for example) to fall off as the square of the total mass enclosed within the orbit. In other words, in moving from a galaxy's nucleus to its periphery, we expect to encounter ever lower velocities, just as in the solar system the outer planets move more slowly. Instead, it has been found that the velocity remains roughly constant. The conclusion drawn from this apparent deviation from the laws of motion is that there must be an important amount of invisible matter in galaxies, comprising as much as 90 to 99 percent of the whole (Rubin 1983, 1988). It is reasonable to expect that a still much larger amount of invisible matter lies farther out, around galaxies.
The Big Bang model suffers from crucial failures that are becoming increasingly serious with continuing progress in astronomical observations. These observations, however, are consistent with a universe that is unlimited in time and space. The density of matter that may exist in intergalactic space - allowing for molecular hydrogen - is compatible with the density (about 0.01 atom/cm3) required in the author's cosmological model. At the same time, the background radiation predicted in an unlimited universe is compatible with the high homogeneity of the observed 3 K background (Marmet 1988).It is clear that God did not limit Himself to a finite universe at one time and place, but made the universe in His own image, infinite in space and time.

======================== ========================
About the Author.


==============
8 --- References.
H. Arp, 1987. Quasars, Redshifts, and Controversies, Berkeley, Calif.: Interstellar Media (2153 Russell Street, 94705).
H. A. Bethe and E. Salpeter, 1957 Quantum Mechanics of One and Two Electron Atom, Berlin: Springer-Verlag
W. Bostick, 1989, "An Outdated History of Time: A Review of A Brief History of Time" by Stephen W. Hawking, "21st Century, Jan, - Feb. 1989, p. 60.
D. Cherry, 1989. "Redshifts and the Spirit Of Scientific Inquiries," 21st Century, May-June 1989, p. 34.
A. Dressler, 1989. "In the Gap of the Great Attractor," The Sciences, Sept. - Oct. 1989, p. 28.
M. J. Geller and J. P. Huchra, 1989, "Mapping the Universe", Science 246: 897
P. S. Henry, 1980. "A Simple Description of the 3 K Cosmic Microwave Background", Science 207:939.
E. Hubble, 1937, "The Observational Approach to Cosmology", Oxford University Press.
J. M. Jauch and F. Rohrlich, 1980, "The Theory of Photons and Electrons" 2nd edition New York: Springer-Verlag.
A. E. Lange, 1989. "Recent Measurements of the Cosmic Microwave Background", Bull. American Astronomical Society, 21:787.
E. J. Lerner, 1989. "Galactic Model of Elements Formation", IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science 17:259.
S. J. Lilly, 1968, "Discovery of a Radio Galaxy at a Redshift of 3.395", Astrophysical Journal 333:161 (Oct 1 1988).
J. Maddox, 1989. "Down with the Big bang", Nature 340:425.
P. Marmet, 1988, "The 3 K Microwave Background and Olbers' Paradox:, Science 240:705.
------------ 1988a, "A New Non-Doppler Redshift", Physics Essays, 1:24.
------------ 1989, "Redshift of Some Spectral Lines in the Sun's Chromosphere", IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science 17: 238.
P. Marmet and L. Kerwin, 1987 "An Improved Electrostatic Electron Selector", Citation Classics - Physical, Chemical & Earth Sciences 27:20 (Nov. 23, 1987). Also appears in Citation Classics - Engineering 18:20.
P. Marmet and G. Reber, 1989, "Cosmic Matter and the Nonexpanding Universe", IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science 17:264.
J. V. Narlikar, 1989, "Noncosmological Redshifts", Space Science Reviews, Vol: 50.
A. L.Peratt, 1968, "Dean of the Plasma Dissidents" (about Hannes Alfvén). The World & I, May 1988 p. 190.
---------- 1989, `Plasma Cosmology - Part I. Interpretations of the Visible World" The World & I, August 1989, p. 295; "Plasma Cosmology - Part II. The Universe is a sea of Electrically Charged Particles," The World & I, Sept, 1989, p. 306.
G. Reber, 1968, "Cosmic Static at 144 Meters Wavelength", Journal of the Franklin Institute 285; 1.
----------- 1977. "Endless, Boundless, Stable Universe, "University of Tasmania (Hobart, Australia) Occasional Paper No: 9.
----------- , 1989 "The Big Bang is Bunk" 21st Century, March-April 1989, p. 43.
K. J. Reboul, 1981. "Untrivial Redshifts: A Bibliographical Catalogue," Astron. and Astrophys, Supp. Ser. 45-129.
M. J. Rees, 1978. "Origin of Pregalactic Microwave Background". Nature 275:35.
V. C. Rubin, 1983. "The Rotation of Spiral Galaxies", Science 220: 1339, (June 24, 1983)
----------------1988, "Dark Matter in the Universe" Proceedings of the Americal Philosophical Society, 132:258.
http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/BIGBANG/Bigbang.html

Theory
A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory.

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/glossary.html#Theory

Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology
What is the evidence for the Big Bang?

The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven. Many of these facts are consistent with the Big Bang and some other cosmological models, but taken together these observations show that the Big Bang is the best current model for the Universe. These observations include:

* The darkness of the night sky - Olbers' paradox.
* The Hubble Law - the linear distance vs redshift law. The data are now very good.
* Homogeneity - fair data showing that our location in the Universe is not special.
* Isotropy - very strong data showing that the sky looks the same in all directions to 1 part in 100,000.
* Time dilation in supernova light curves.

The observations listed above are consistent with the Big Bang or with the Steady State model, but many observations support the Big Bang over the Steady State:

* Radio source and quasar counts vs. flux. These show that the Universe has evolved.
* Existence of the blackbody CMB. This shows that the Universe has evolved from a dense, isothermal state.
* Variation of TCMB with redshift. This is a direct observation of the evolution of the Universe.
* Deuterium, 3He, 4He, and 7Li abundances. These light isotopes are all well fit by predicted reactions occurring in the First Three Minutes.

Finally, the angular power spectrum of the CMB anisotropy that does exist at the several parts per million level is consistent with a dark matter dominated Big Bang model that went through the inflationary scenario.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/co...tml#BBevidence

Pero como camaronero le fue entregado un evangelio perdido de Qumran........... ha volcado su fe a él. "SÍ, LAS TEORIAS SON HECHOS........... Y ES NECEDAD CUESTIONARLAS"............... AAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMENNNNN

ES esto o no divertido joseleg? :)
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

....Los creacionistas dicen que el hombre no "viene del mono"..
..
... dicen que viene de un muñeco de barro.
...
...
..Jeje, jé...ji, ji ji....
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Y continuamos.



Traduccion.
La definicion formal cientifica de teoria es muy diferente de la que se usa cotidianamente. Se refiere a la explicacion comprensiva de algun aspecto de la naturaleza que esta apoyada por un vasto cuerpo de evidencia.

Esto es para los que dicen que la teoria de la evolucion por ser "teoria" es solo especulacion, ahi tienen la explicacion mas sencilla.



Traduccion.
Asia ha revelado una sucesion de organismos que, empezando hace unos 50 millones de años, se movieron al agua primero para cazar y luego para vivir continuamente en el medio marino. La evidencia fosil esta acorde con descubrimientos geneticos recientes que ballenas, delfines y marsopas descienden de un grupo de mamiferos terrestres conocido como artiodactilos, que hoy en dia incluye animales como ovejas, cabras y jirafas.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

....Los creacionistas dicen que el hombre no "viene del mono"..
..
... dicen que viene de un muñeco de barro.
...
...
..Jeje, jé...ji, ji ji....

Por eso........... pero hay evolucionistas , afortunadamente no todos, que las teorías son hechos y que no deben revisarse,............. algo así como dogmas......... jeje, jé .... ji, ji ji..... (sic)
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Y continuamos.



Traduccion.


Esto es para los que dicen que la teoria de la evolucion por ser "teoria" es solo especulacion, ahi tienen la explicacion mas sencilla.



Traduccion.

Continuemos pues:

Acceptance of the evidence for evolution
can be compatible with religious faith.

Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has
produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earth’s history.
Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of
their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently
about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this
planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the
evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence
of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations
of religious texts.
Science and religion are based on different aspects of human experience.
In science, explanations must be based on evidence drawn from examining the
natural world. Scientifically based observations or experiments that conflict
with an explanation eventually must lead to modification or even abandonment
of that explanation. Religious faith, in contrast, does not depend only
on empirical evidence, is not necessarily modified in the face of conflicting
evidence, and typically involves supernatural forces or entities. Because they
are not a part of nature, supernatural entities cannot be investigated by science.
In this sense, science and religion are separate and address aspects of
human understanding in different ways. Attempts to pit science and religion
against each other create controversy where none needs to exist.

Lo que siempre he dicho, Utilizar religión para invalidar la ciencia es tan absurdo como el uso de la ciencia para invalidar la teología.

Scientists, like people in other professions, hold a wide range of positions about
religion and the role of supernatural forces or entities in the universe. Some adhere
to a position known as scientism, which holds that the methods of science alone are
sufficient for discovering everything there is to know about the universe. Others
ascribe to an idea known as deism, which posits that God created all things and set
the universe in motion but no longer actively directs physical phenomena. Others
are theists, who believe that God actively intervenes in the world. Many scientists
who believe in God, either as a prime mover or as an active force in the universe,
have written eloquently about their beliefs.


Genial, muchas gracias ya lo he bajado. Y
............ Es un libro de 89 paginas de la NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES
INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE
para que no digan que cualquier tipo lo escribio.

.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Fact or Theory?

by John P. Pratt
©1998 by John P. Pratt. All rights Reserved.
Astronomy Home Page

It is extremely important to distinguish between facts and theories in science, and in every other subject also, because facts usually remain the same and theories often change. They are not always easy to differentiate, and even scientists forget to do it. And the people who write science textbooks nearly always forget to do it. So I'll try to give you some guidelines so you can do it yourself, because twenty years from now the facts will be the same, but the theories may have changed a lot. I know because I've had to relearn some theories since I taught this class 25 years ago, but the facts are the same. For example, the universe has doubled in age since I was a boy, which gives you an idea of just how old I am. In this class, we will try to spend about 2/3 of the time on facts, so that you won't need to relearn the entire class when the theories change. Of course, we can't ignore the theories altogether, because they are our best explanations of the facts; it's just that we shouldn't consider them to be absolute truth. When some people see a scientific theory disproven and replaced by another, they lose confidence in all of science, which is a big mistake. That is how science progresses, and it is a wonderful way to learn about our world. So let's begin by reviewing the scientific method, to see just how facts and theories interact.
The Scientific Method

There are essentially three steps to the scientific Method, although some authors break it in to more. These steps are to observe something, then to try to explain it, and then use your explanation to predict future observations. Let's look at these steps more closely.
1. Make Observations.

Let's suppose we were interested in this marvelous world in which we live enough to actually look at it once in a while. Suppose that in the early morning light, you are walking with two friends and notice that there is a halo around your shadow, glowing in the dew on the grass. You notice also that there is no such halo around the shadow of your friends. Being curious about the world, you ask yourself, "What causes the halo?" As we become more aware of the universe around us, we will find ourselves asking such questions often.
2. Propose a Theory.

Try to explain what you've observed. The man who first wrote up this observation, proposed the theory that it was because of his superior intelligence. Before reading on, do you think he is right? If not, pause for a moment and try thinking of your own theory. How could you test either his theory or your own theory to see if it might be right?
3. Use the Theory to Predict Future Observations.

The heart of science lies in this third step. Having your theory, use it to predict the outcome of a future observation. This is the "testing" part of science. In the current example, you could ask your friends if they see anything unusual about any of the shadows. (If you don't tip them off what your theory is, you'll get a more unbiased answer.) Suppose they both answer that each sees a glow around her own shadow. What does this tell you about your theory? What does it tell you about the man's theory with his supposed superior intelligence?

Falsification. An important point here is that if the prediction fails then the theory must be discarded or changed. If it was really his superior intelligence, then the prediction would be that the two friends would either agree that only his shadow had the aura, or perhaps they would see no aura at all (because of their inferior intelligence!). The simple observation that each sees his own aura falsifies his theory because not all three can have an intelligence superior to both the others.

These three steps are usually repeated over and over, often refining the theory after each set of new observations or experiments, with increasingly difficult testing hurdles for the theory to overcome. The most valuable theories are those which make precise and risky predictions, which could easily disprove the theory if they failed.

Repeat the Three Steps Until Satisfied. If your theory passes the first falsification test, then think of another experiment to test another aspect of the theory. The idea of science is to repeat the three steps over and over until you are convinced you have a theory good enough to correctly predict the outcome of experiments in a wide variety of situations. To do this, scientists like to use "controlled" experiments when only one thing changes each time. In this example, you might try looking for a halo at a different time of day, or without the dew, or on something besides grass. Each time your theory should make a measurable prediction.

Unscientific Theories. If your theory makes no prediction, then it cannot be tested and hence it is not scientific. It still might be the correct explanation, it is just not scientific because the scientific method cannot be used to falsify it. There are many theories out there which cannot be tested, masquerading as scientific theories in order to have credibility. Be on the lookout for them.

Truth. Note that you cannot prove any theory to be true. You might think up a thousand totally different tests to try to disprove the theory, and it might pass every one. Does that mean it is "true"? No, because the 1,001st test could prove it false. While scientific theories are never supposed to be considered to be absolute truth, some have passed so many tests that they are called "laws." For example, we will learn Kepler's laws, and Newton's laws. A scientific law is like a theory that has been inducted into the "Science Hall of Fame." But even then it might have to be modified. Einstein found some corrections even for Newton's laws, but they are normally far too tiny to even be able to measure.

Everyday Scientific Method. You probably use the scientific method everyday more than you might have suspected. If your car stops, you first think it might be out of gas, but the fact is, the gauge says you have plenty. After you try several things which fail (falsifying those theories), you replace the gas filter and suddenly it works again. You haven't proven that it was the gas filter, but you'll believe it was unless something else convinces you otherwise (such as it quitting again in a similar manner.)

TV commercials are filled with suggestions for you. You observe that the guy who uses this toothpaste has a brighter smile and the girls all chase him. So you buy some on the theory that they'll soon be after you. But even if your date-acceptance-rate does measurably pick up, it may still be hard to trace it to the toothpaste; it might be simply that you are smiling more! That's why scientists try to have controlled experiments. But at least we can think about what we are doing anyway in a more scientific way.

A lot of times we just do the first two steps of the scientific method. We observe something, form a theory, and then simply assume the speculation is true. Maybe your girlfriend doesn't return your calls as quickly, so you decide she doesn't like you anymore. Or maybe she got caller ID. Before "jumping to conclusions," try thinking of ways to test your explanations of observations.

Usefulness of Science. It is the predictive power of science that is so powerful, and which has led to much of the marvelous technology we now enjoy. When we know the law of gravity, we can build bridges and even send rockets to the moon. Without the ability to predict future results, we do not have science, we have only speculation about what happened in the past. Perhaps the greatest achievement in chemistry was the periodic table, which predicted the existence and properties of several elements before they were discovered. Science is truly wonderful in what it has given us, and the rock on which it is founded is the scientific method.

The "Rest of the Story." I can't resist telling you how the true example above about the glowing shadows comes out. One of the first scientists to investigate this phenomenon (called "heiligenschein" = "holy light") proposed that the droplets on the grass act like little lenses which focus the light onto the leaves of grass, which reflects the light back through that same lens into a beam back toward the observer. That explains why it is only seen around the shadow of the observer, because it is directed back toward the sun. That explanation was immediately discredited by someone who merely asked the question" "If the light reflects off the leaf, then why isn't it green?" No one could answer that, and one entire century went by and no one could offer a better theory. Finally someone asked, "Well, is the light green?" He did some precise color measurements and sure enough, the light was green, and that first theory is now accepted. So the science in this area was halted for a hundred years because scientists didn't actually do an experiment to test it!
Facts

The word fact can be used several ways, but in general in science, "facts" refer to the observations. They are best when they are repeatable observations under controlled conditions, such as "It is a fact that the speed of light is constant in a vacuum." This is the part of science which will be the same a century from now, unless more precise measurements show otherwise.
Theories

The theories are the explanations proposed in step two of the scientific method. Usually the word "theory" is reserved for more than a first attempt, which might be called a "hypothesis." A theory usually has already survived several falsification attempts, and is pretty well accepted. However, I'll use the word theory to mean any explanation of observations.

Thus, by separating facts from theories, I mean distinguishing between observations and explanations. When you hear the news, "The Dow Jones took a plunge today because of fears about the Asian crisis," is that fact or theory? It was half and half. The fact is that the market went down: that is an observation which was measured. But who knows what drives the market? The matter-of-fact statement that it was caused by such fears could be anything from one reporter's speculation to a general consensus of market analysts. In any case, it remains only a theory. No one will separate the facts from theories for you; the trend is to present everything as truth.
Truth

Let's take just a moment to talk about truth. If science can never prove a theory "true," then truth really has no place at all in science. By "truth" I mean what is "really" going on. Truth has to do with ultimate causes, which are nearly always extremely elusive and beyond the realm of science. Science deals with theories, usually mathematical, which predict outcomes of experiments. For example, if we drop a rock off a cliff, the law of gravity combined with theories of air resistance and other forces can be used to calculate just how long it will take to hit the ground, and how fast it will go, etc. But science does not answer the question of just exactly what gravity is, or why things fall. It just states that given certain conditions, they will fall. In general, science answers questions like "how," "when," "where", but never "why" in the ultimate sense.

As an example of the interplay of the three concepts of observations, theories and truth, consider the courtroom. The observations may be that a man was seen shooting a gun and that the person hit by the bullet died. The theory may be that it was cold-blooded murder, but the truth may be that it was self-defense. Truth tends to be invisible and hidden, such as someone's motives, whereas observations are usually visible. Courts are very interested in truth, where the motive (the ultimate cause) for actions is given considerable weight. The distinction between first-degree and second degree murder is based on intent. Motives are not as yet observable in science, and hence are beyond science.
Try Replacing the Word "Fact"

The word "fact" has several meanings, which can be very confusing. In popular useage it can mean either "observation," "theory," or "truth." As an example of each, one can say, "it is a fact that every time I have dropped this ball, it fell to the ground." That is what has been observed so far, and the word "fact" can be replaced with "observation." One can also say, "it is a fact that every time I have dropped this ball, gravity pulled it to the ground." Even though this statement appears very similar to the first, "gravity" really refers to a theory proposed to explain why the ball is observed to fall. Finally, if one so thoroughly believes that the theory of gravity is really "true," he could replace "a fact" with "true," which would take the meaning beyond science into the realm of his personal convictions.

This confusion can often be avoided by always replacing the word "fact" with "observation," "theory" or "truth," whichever seems to convey the intended meaning best. Remember that if the meaning is "observation," then it is as fallible as the observer. If it is a "theory," then it also could be disproven someday. If it is claimed to be "truth," then it is a statement of the personal conviction of the speaker, which is outside the domain of science.
What to do

There are really two things I'm suggesting that you actually start to do.

Use the Scientific Method Daily. First, try making a practice of using the scientific method on a daily basis. You already formulate explanations of things you notice. The main step to add is some test with predicted results to test your theory. I do programming for a living. When I discover a "bug" in a program, I come up with a theory of what may be causing the problem. Before I test my theory by making the proposed correction, I always predict on what the result will be. I've noticed that other programmers will sometimes just try different things almost randomly to see what might be the result. I've found it helps me much more to always have a reason for the change, which is to test my current theory.

Separate Observations from Explanations. Secondly, when you hear the news, or see advertisements, try distinguishing between facts and theories. This can really be a fun exercise, and it is really instructive. It should be useful to you no matter what your major is. Maybe even get in the habit of asking for case studies, or articles which discuss just how something is known. Hopefully, I will never be upset if you ask, "Just how do you know that?" That is what science is all about. And I'll be expecting that of you. By the end of this course you should know the experimental evidence which caused even the ancients to conclude that the earth is spherical, and that most galaxies are rushing away from ours.

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/astronomy/science.html

Pero la VERDAD está en las citas que trajo el camaronero............ pero solo en las que él cita , que las que yo cito del mismo libro no tanto.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Theory and Fact

* October 17th, 2008

* education
* teachers
* top resources

One source of confusion about the status of the science or theory of evolution stems from the difference between the "everyday" meaning of the word "theory" and the scientific meaning the word.

Below we list some common misconceptions about the term "theory" and describe a classroom activity that can help students rethink their understanding of this term.

Misconception 1 "Evolution is 'just a theory'".

Misconception 2 "Theories become facts when they are well supported and/or proven."

There are three important misconceptions propagated in the above statements. The first statement implies that a theory should be interpreted as just a guess or a hunch, whereas in science, the term theory is used very differently. The second statement implies that theories become facts, in some sort of linear progression. In science, facts never become theories. Rather, theories explain facts. The third misconception is that scientific research provides proof in the sense of attaining the absolute truth. Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision should new evidence come to light.

NCSE, National Center for Science Education. Defending the Teaching of Evolution in Public Schools.

Pero para camaronero:

Efectivamente, la evolucion tiene ya tantas pruebas a su favor que es necio y entorpecedor seguir cuestionando su ocurrencia y querer hacer un sin fin de ejemplos para convencerse, mejor dedican el tiempo a investigar cuales son sus fenomenos y causas.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

La primera verdad que ningún hombre debe ignorar es la existencia de Dios, es decir, de un Ser eterno, necesario e infinitamente perfecto, Creador del universo espiritual y material, absoluto Señor de todas las cosas, a las que Él gobierna con su Providencia. Esta es la verdad fundamental sobre la que descansa el edificio augusto de la religión, de la moral, de la familia y todo el orden social.

Si no hay Dios, la religión es completamente inútil
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

La moral carece de base, si Dios, en virtud de su santidad, no establece una diferencia entre el bien y el mal; si con su autoridad suprema, no hace obligatorias las normas de esa moral, y si con su perfecta justicia no premia el bien y castiga el mal.

Es imposible concebir la familia y la sociedad, sin leyes, sin deberes, sin las virtudes de la caridad, etc., y todas estas virtudes, si Dios no existiera, serían purasquimeras.


los homosexuales que se besaron frente al vicario de Cristo desean con todo su corazon que Dios no exista.
curiosamente quien no cree en DIos siempre trae cola de paja.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

tan ciertos podemos estar de que Dios existe, como de que existe el sol.

Es verdad que a Dios no lo vemos con los ojos corporales, porque es un espíritu puro; pero son tantas las pruebas que demuestran, sin lugar a dudas, su existencia,que sería necesario haber perdido por completo la inteligencia, para afirmar que Dios no existe.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

lo que no existe no puede crear nada, ni mover nada, por lo tanto el universo no existia. El ser que no existe, es
nada, y la nada, nada produce

el mundo que conocemos nace, crece, se renueva, este mundo no es inmutable ni es infinito, ni eterno.

si el universo no existia entonces tiene un creador inmutable, infinito, necesario.

La existencia del universo demuestra la existencia de un Ser Supremo, causa primera de todos los seres. Ese ser supremo es Dios
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Una vez que les he traido la explicacion de alguien mas iminente en la materia que cualquier partidiario del foro ahora les traigo una de las opiniones del otro bando, de un catolico sobre los fenomenos que los creacionistas gustan de negar sin base alguna.


Traduccion.
Nuestro entendimiento cientifico del universo provee a aquellos que creen en dios una maravillosa oportunidad de ver reflejadas sus creencias.

Significa que no porque sea un Big Bang no por eso tiene que ir en contra de las creencias sino todo lo contrario, es mas intrincado e incluso demostraria mas la omnipotencia del supuesto dios un evento infinitamente poderoso como un Big Bang o la evolucion que el simple relato del Genesis donde todo se crea espontaneamente, personalmente no creo en un dios pero no me importaria que los creacionistas dijeran que el Big Bang, la evolucion o lo que sea que nieguen, es obra de su dios, no me importaria siempre y cuando dejen de poner trabas para que no se difunda el conocimiento.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Vitaz... Ud. esta absolutamente fuera de topico. Sucede q por actitudes como la suya se agarran los ateos y vienen y nos llaman a todos los creyentes fanáticos irracionales. Y es por sencillamente Ud. No sigue el hilo del debate.
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

No mucha diferencia ente vitaz y camarotero
 
Re: ¿Crees en la evolucion?

Cada uno apela al magisterio q le tiene mas fe. Y no entren en considerar los pares. Al menos vitaz puede apelar a que habla de fe, algo inaceptable en epistemología como lo hace camarotero.