Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

lord11HR--478x270.jpg


Ouch!!!... tan distintos y ..... TAN IGUALES!!! que

Un cráneo ancestral desata polémica sobre la evolución humana


(CNN) - Los fragmentos de los antiguos parientes de los humanos se encuentran diseminados por todo el globo. Algunas veces, un diente o unos cuantos huesos son todo lo que tenemos para conocer toda una especie que vivió hace miles o millones de años y que está estrechamente vinculada con los humanos.

De manera que cuando alguien encuentra todo un cráneo de un posible ancestro humano, los paleontólogos se regocijan. Sin embargo, con el nuevo conocimiento viene una nueva controversia acerca del lugar que ocupa un fósil en el enmarañado árbol genealógico de nuestra especie

En la oriental nación europea de Georgia, un grupo de investigadores ha excavado un cráneo de 1,8 millones de años de antigüedad de un pariente humano, cuyo nombre en la actualidad es Skull 5 (Cráneo 5). Informan de los hallazgos en la revista Science y dicen que pertenece a nuestro género, llamado Homo.

"Este es el cráneo de Homo temprano más completo que se haya encontrado jamás en el mundo", dijo el autor principal del estudio David Lordkipanidze, investigador en el Museo Nacional Georgiano en Tbilisi.

Skull 5 es el quinto ejemplo de un homínido —un mamífero primate bípedo que caminó erguido— de este período de tiempo que se ha encontrado en el sitio en Dmanisi, Georgia. También se han recuperado en el área herramientas de piedra y huesos de animales.

Las diferencias en las características físicas entre los especímenes homínidos de Dmanisi se pueden comparar con el grado de diversidad que se encuentra actualmente en los humanos, lo cual sugiere que todos pertenecen a una especie, dijo Lordkipanidze.

Pero "si colocas por separado estos cinco cráneos y cinco mandíbulas en distintos sitios, probablemente las personas dirán que son especies distintas", dijo.


- pregunto.... que tan seguido ocurrirá esto? --- menos mal que siempre sale un cientìfico que no se quede con el paradigma "status quo" como si fuera un dogma y se atreve a retarlo

Ahora se hace más polémico: Lordkipanidze y sus colegas también proponen que estos individuos son miembros de una sola especie de Homo Erectus, de los cuales se han encontrado ejemplos en África y Asia. Las similitudes entre el nuevo cráneo de Georgia y los restos del homo erectus de Java, Indonesia, por ejemplo, pueden significar que hubo una "continuidad genética a través de largas distancias geográficas", dijo el estudio.

Es más, los investigadores sugieren que el registro fósil de las que han sido consideradas especies distintas de Homo de este período de tiempo —como el Homo ergaster, Homo rudolfensis y Homo habilis— podrían en realidad ser variaciones de una sola especie, Homo erectus. Esto desafía la comprensión actual de cómo se debería clasificar a los parientes tempranos de los humanos.!!

Debido a Skull 5 y los otros fósiles encontrados en Dmanisi, los científicos están "replanteándose lo que ocurrió en África", dijo Lordkipanidze.

Basados en los fósiles encontrados, parece que los individuos de Dmanisi tenían las piernas largas y los brazos cortos, dijo la coautora del estudio Marcia Ponce de León, del Instituto Antropológico de la Universidad de Zúrich, Suiza, en una conferencia de prensa.

La cavidad craniana de Skull 5 mide 546 centímetros cúbicos, inferior a lo esperado.

La cavidad craniana más grande encontrada en Dmanisi es un 75% mayor que la más pequeña, lo cual es consistente con lo que se observa en los humanos modernos, dijo el coautor del estudio Christoph Zollikofer del Instituto Antropológico en Zúrich.

En Dmanisi, los investigadores creen que los carnívoros y los homínidos peleaban por los cadáveres de animales. Las herramientas de piedra parecen haber sido usadas en matanzas, en base a las marcas de cortes en los huesos de animales, dijo Lordkipanidze. Se pueden comparar con las herramientas encontradas en África.

"Es una verdadera fotografía en el tiempo", dijo Lordkipanidze sobre el sitio de Dmanisi. Skull 5, excavado en 2005, fue emparejado con una mandíbula descubierta en 2000. La primera muestra de un fósil homínido se descubrió en 1991. ¿Qué especies vinieron después del Homo erectus en la historia de los parientes humanos? Los científicos no tienen idea, dijo Zollikofer.

"Sería agradable decir que éste es el último ancestro en común entre los Neandertales y nosotros, pero simplemente no lo sabemos", dijo Zollikofer.

Los fósiles de Dmanisi son un gran hallazgo, dijeron los investigadores de antropología que no están involucrados con la excavación. Pero no están convencidos con la idea de que éste es el mismo Homo erectus tanto de África como de Asia, o que especies individuales de Homo de este período de tiempo son todas en realidad una sola especie.

"La muestra es maravillosa y una importante contribución al registro de homínidos de un período sobre el cual desafortunadamente tenemos muy pocos fósiles", dijo Lee Berger, paleoantropólogo de la Universidad de Witwatersrand en Johannesburgo, en un correo electrónico.

Pero la sugerencia de que estos fósiles prueban un linaje que evolucionó del Homo erectus en Asia y África, dijo Berger, "es llevar la evidencia demasiado lejos".

Berger dirigió el equipo que descubrió al Australopithecus sediba, un posible ancestro humano que vivió hace alrededor de 2 millones de años en Suráfrica. Criticó a los autores del nuevo estudio por no comparar los fósiles de Dmanisi con el A. sediba o con fósiles más recientes encontrados en el este de África.

Lordkipanidze dijo que él y sus colegas consideran al A. sediba anterior y más primitivo que los homínidos de Dmanisi, y que "no hay duda" que los fósiles georgianos pertenecen al género Homo.

Pero la selectividad de los fósiles comparados con ellos en este estudio podría haber desviado artificialmente los resultados hacia las hipótesis de los investigadores, dijo Berger.

Ian Tattersall, curador emérito en la división de antropología del Museo de Historia Natural de Estados Unidos, dijo en un correo electrónico que "de ninguna manera este espécimen extraordinariamente importante es un Homo erectus", si el fragmento de cráneo descubierto en Trinil, Java, Indonesia, define las características del grupo de Homo erectus.

La Sala de los orígenes humanos en el museo de Nueva York lleva a los visitantes en un viaje por la historia evolutiva humana y muestra las inconfundibles especies Homo en los principales hallazgos fósiles, como los del Niño de Turkana (Homo ergaster) y el Hombre de Pekín (Homo erectus).

El descubrimiento de Dmanisi puede llegar a tener su sitio aquí también, pero probablemente no tendrá como resultado el reetiquetado de otras especies, dijo Tattersall.

"Ciertamente, yo no cambiaría la Sala ahora mismo, excepto para agregar el espécimen, que es verdaderamente significativo", dijo.

Hay un área de alrededor de 50.000 metros cuadrados en Dmanisi que aún no se ha excavado, así que Skull 5 puede tener aún más compañía.



http://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2013/10/17/un-craneo-ancestral-desata-polemica-sobre-la-evolucion-humana/


Yo no sé si entienden la transcendecia de este hallazgo....: es muy posible que la "cadena evolutiva" del H. Sapiens Sapiens... se haya reducido , DEL SALTO DE UN ESLABON A OTRO.... este hallazgo, se está echando a la basura, al menos a tres "especies distintas" que ahora resultan ser LA MISMA.
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

En solo unos miles de años muchas formas de perros han surgido, y hay especies de perros que tienen problemas de engendracion entre tales.

Lo que se dice 'surgir' es de acuerdo a la variedad de una misma especie, pero todos son perros. Si un perro de una raza fea se cruza con uno de raza bonito, que sin importar que resultara si bonito, feo o termino medio, sera otro perro.

Los problemas no son parte del diseño, si bien alteran los genes ello no es evolucion (de progreso) sino alteracion de accidente, un percanse o intromision. Pero si llegase a ser progreso, igual, es fortuito, lo no esperado. Nada cambia por si mismo, no existe esa clase de evolucion, no es causa.
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Lo que se dice 'surgir' es de acuerdo a la variedad de una misma especie, pero todos son perros. Si un perro de una raza fea se cruza con uno de raza bonito, que sin importar que resultara si bonito, feo o termino medio, sera otro perro.

Los problemas no son parte del diseño, si bien alteran los genes ello no es evolucion (de progreso) sino alteracion de accidente, un percanse o intromision. Pero si llegase a ser progreso, igual, es fortuito, lo no esperado. Nada cambia por si mismo, no existe esa clase de evolucion, no es causa.

¿Y que crees que sucedería si se van acumulando cambios y mutaciones neutrales durante millones de años?
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

¿Y que crees que sucedería si se van acumulando cambios y mutaciones neutrales durante millones de años?

El acumular no implica necesariamente desaparicion de los anteriores. Lo que hace extincion de especies es debido a causas, ya sea catastrofes naturales o exterminio (caza indiscriminada y sin control). En las mutaciones, lo cambiado queda y se trasmite por herencia, es una consecuencia natural. Pero todo ello no es autonomo, es decir, no es algo inherente el cambiar. Puesto lo que hace cambiar (evolucion) son dos: ya sea accidente como el actuar ciego de dicha naturaleza o imprudencia o inexperiencia de la inteligencia (Chernobil por jemplo), o proposito (biogenetica).
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

El acumular no implica necesariamente desaparicion de los anteriores. Lo que hace extincion de especies es debido a causas, ya sea catastrofes naturales o exterminio (caza indiscriminada y sin control). En las mutaciones, lo cambiado queda y se trasmite por herencia, es una consecuencia natural. Pero todo ello no es autonomo, es decir, no es algo inherente el cambiar. Puesto lo que hace cambiar (evolucion) son dos: ya sea accidente como el actuar ciego de dicha naturaleza o imprudencia o inexperiencia de la inteligencia (Chernobil por jemplo), o proposito (biogenetica).

Eso no contesta la pregunta.

Si a una especie le vas acumulando cambios durante millones de años ¿que pasaría?
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Eso no contesta la pregunta.

Si a una especie le vas acumulando cambios durante millones de años ¿que pasaría?

Que sea asi, que se va acumulando los cambios, cuyos cambios daria como resultado algo impredecible. Es decir, que podria ser irreconocible, pues se iria alejando de sus antecesores. Sin embargo, ello no denunciarian una evolucion de de corte autonoma. Se hace evidente que la suma de los cambios son de causas externas. Nada cambia por si mismo. Ese es el punto.
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

En solo unos miles de años muchas formas de perros han surgido, y hay especies de perros que tienen problemas de engendracion entre tales.
Pero siguen siendo perros ¿no? El hecho de que no se puedan reproducir entre sí va contra la teoría de la evolución, porque éstos han perdido información genética y por eso no se pueden reproducir, pero la evolución plantea la SUMA de información genética. La evolución plantea que los seres ADQUIRIERON nuevas características y pasaron de un género hacia otro, esto está muy lejos de la ciencia OBSERVABLE en el presente.
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Que sea asi, que se va acumulando los cambios, cuyos cambios daria como resultado algo impredecible. Es decir, que podria ser irreconocible, pues se iria alejando de sus antecesores. Sin embargo, ello no denunciarian una evolucion de de corte autonoma. Se hace evidente que la suma de los cambios son de causas externas. Nada cambia por si mismo. Ese es el punto.

Las mutaciones no se generan necesariamente por factores externos, el ADN puede mutar espontaneamente. ¿No sería eso un cambio "autónomo"?
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Algunos evolucionistas piensan que si una generación vive muchos años (como los 15 años para la tuatara) se vuelve ‘su camisa de fuerza’ porque ‘alenta el proceso de la evolución’; pero no se puede aplicar en el caso con las cucarachas y arquebacteria que se reproducen rápidamente (la bacteria multiplicándose en minutos), y aún así no han evolucionado por 3.5 mil millones de años.
Luchando para que tenga sentido este dilema, la autora zoóloga del artículo cita que ‘algunos biólogos se maravillan de que aún haya evolución, considerando las posibles decadencias del cambio’. Ella cita a un paleontólogo de la universidad de Yale diciendo que ‘los organismos son tan complejos que es muy difícil de cambiar un aspecto sin perjudicar el resto’.[SUP]1[/SUP]
El artículo de la revista New Scientist no resuelve el dilema: ‘llegamos a una escena complicada… Tener un ámbito generalizado o especializado. Vivir rápido o lento. Mantenerse sencillo o no. Estar en el lugar correcto en el momento preciso. Y si todo lo demás falla, tratar de llegar a ser una “súper especie”, bendita con una fisiología que pueda superarlo todo.’[SUP]3

Fuente: http://creation.com/living-fossil-enigma-spanish
[/SUP]
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Algunos evolucionistas piensan que si una generación vive muchos años (como los 15 años para la tuatara) se vuelve ‘su camisa de fuerza’ porque ‘alenta el proceso de la evolución’; pero no se puede aplicar en el caso con las cucarachas y arquebacteria que se reproducen rápidamente (la bacteria multiplicándose en minutos), y aún así no han evolucionado por 3.5 mil millones de años.
Luchando para que tenga sentido este dilema, la autora zoóloga del artículo cita que ‘algunos biólogos se maravillan de que aún haya evolución, considerando las posibles decadencias del cambio’. Ella cita a un paleontólogo de la universidad de Yale diciendo que ‘los organismos son tan complejos que es muy difícil de cambiar un aspecto sin perjudicar el resto’.[SUP]1[/SUP]
El artículo de la revista New Scientist no resuelve el dilema: ‘llegamos a una escena complicada… Tener un ámbito generalizado o especializado. Vivir rápido o lento. Mantenerse sencillo o no. Estar en el lugar correcto en el momento preciso. Y si todo lo demás falla, tratar de llegar a ser una “súper especie”, bendita con una fisiología que pueda superarlo todo.’[SUP]3

Fuente: http://creation.com/living-fossil-enigma-spanish
[/SUP]
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

¿Cómo explican los evolucionistas que exista un dedo humano fosilizado?

fossil-finger+finger-th.jpg


http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossilized-human-finger.htm

¿Y qué hay de este martillo de acero de "millones de años"?

hammer-th.jpg


http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossilized-hammer.htm


Hay que hueva.

Le traigo el estudio de los dos casos expuestos y los resultados. :Zzzz:

<center style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium; ">[h=1]An Alleged Cretaceous Finger[/h][Draft] © 2005, 2012, Glen J. Kuban</center>
finger_1.jpg
[SIZE=-1]Alleged Cretaceous finger
From Baugh's CEM Website[/SIZE]

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[h=3]Abstract[/h]An elongate rock found loose in a gravel pile has been claimed by Carl Baugh and a few other creationists to be a fossilized human finger. Baugh, who asserts that the object refutes evolution and conventional geology, maintains that CAT-scan images show human bones inside the finger. However, the supposed finger shows no clear internal features, exhibits a number of anatomic problems and is inconsistent with preservational features of other fossils from the area. Even more importantly, it has not been convincingly linked to any host formation, severely undermining its status as a possible geologic anomaly.[h=3]Background[/h]In the mid-1980's Carl Baugh of Glen Rose, Texas, known for his many claims of alleged out-of-place fossils and artifacts, acquired a supposed fossilized human finger. Soon afterward he began to exhibit it in his "Creation Evidence Museum" in Glen Rose, Texas, as an alleged out of place fossil. Baugh at the time allowed me to visually examine the "finger," relating that it was found in a pile of loose gravel north of Glen Rose. Baugh's web site states that the "finger" was "found by a landowner where road gravel was being quarried from the Cretaceous Walnut Formation of the Commanche Peak Formation." The reference to specific formations might lead some readers to misconstrue that the fossil was known to be associated with the stated formations. Similarly, Baugh seems to lead the reader to assume that it was an in-situ discovery in Cretaceous rocks, as he states in introduction on his website that the "finger" was "discovered in Cretaceous layers near the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas." Fortunately, most creationist organizations have refrained from promoting the finger claims. Some groups, including Answers in Genesis, have specifically urged caution, referring to the "finger" as dubious and insufficiently documented.[1] AIG, having looked into other sensational claims by Baugh, has made an even broader warning about Baugh's claims, noting that he "uses a lot of material that is not sound scientifically. So we advise against relying on any ‘evidence’ he provides, unless supported by creationist organisations with reputations for Biblical and scientific rigour."[3][h=3]Analysis[/h]
sidect.jpg
[SIZE=-1]CAT scan of alleged Cretaceous
finger (from Baugh's web site)[/SIZE]

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In order to claim the "finger" as a reliable out-of-place fossil, one would need convincing documentation that it was once naturally embedded in an ancient rock formation, as well as convincing evidence that it was an actual fossil finger. So far, neither has been provided. The lack of clear evidence about the stone's place of origin alone undermines its possible anti-evolutionary value. It could well have been found in or near a gravel Cretaceous gravel pile as reported, but we have no independent way of verifying this. Even if the account were true as told, the object could have fallen from an overlying formation, or been tossed or placed there by someone. One can find cigarettes and gum wrappers in gravel piles also, but it would not be prudent to assume they came from the Cretaceous period.In view of the lack of rigorous evidence on the origin of the "finger," it is almost moot whether it is a real finger fossil or not. However, since it would be an interesting fossil if real, regardless of its alleged out-of-place status, let us briefly examine this issue. Despite Baugh's insistence that it is virtually identical to a real human finger, it actually shows a number of anatomic inconsistencies. The supposed finger-nail is narrower on the proximal than distal end, and there is a furrow running lengthwise along the supposed top of the sepcimen which is not a normal feature of a real finger. It also shows no indication of knuckles, nor any evidence of trauma at the proximal end. One might ask how the finger became separated from the rest of the body without such indications.
chas3.jpg
[SIZE=-1]Cross section of the "finger"
(photo link to www.biblebelieers.org website)[/SIZE]

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Baugh states that a spiral CAT scan was done on the "finger," and declares that "scientific analysis shows replaced bone, tissue, and ligaments. It has been identified as the fourth finger on a girl’s left hand."[2] The latter assertion is reminiscent of his overstated claims regarding supposed human footprints, where vague impressions disputed even by other creationists are declared by Baugh to be so clearly human one can identify whether they are male or female. In fact, there are no clear indications of bones, ligaments, or other specific structures in the CAT scans of the supposed finger. All that is visible are some ill-defined darker areas toward the center of the object. These are expected in any natural stone, due to the greater amount of material the radiation must pass through near the middle of the stone.The lack of clear bones is also evident in the cross sections of the finger, which show some ill-defined concentric bands, but no distinct boundaries. The innermost, lighter-toned region (presumed to be a bone) also is oriented much closer to one side than the other, rather than being more centered as would be expected for a bone. Baugh and others[4] have claimed that the tiny dots represent bone pores, but they extend well beyond the area assumed to be bone, and thus seem to refute rather than support the bone contention. It seems more likely the tiny structures represent particles of contrasting sediment or microfossils (perhaps osctracodes and/or forams), but evidently the finger proponents have not done the rigorous microscopic work needed to conclusively identify them.
wormtub2b.jpg
[SIZE=-1]Serpulid worm tubes, Cretaceous,
Glen Rose Formation, Texas[/SIZE]

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Another consideration is that such soft-tissue preservation is not known for other Cretaceous fossils of Texas. Fossils are abundant in Texas. However, almost all are impressions, steinkerns (natural molds), hard-parts that are partially or entirely mineral-replaced. Evidently none include vertebrate soft tissue preservation. Whatever the factors of taphonomy responsible for this, it seems unlikely that a single finger would be preserved with all flesh and bone pristinely mineralized, and not even scrappy remains of flesh from other mammals, reptiles, fishes, amphibians, or invertebrates that occur in Cretaceous rocks in Texas. Baugh's web site states, "soft tissue is fossilized with remarkable detail when the organism is rapidly buried soon after or before death." As alleged evidence of this, Baugh shows a photograph of supposed "well-preserved worm fossils" from the Glen Rose area.* However, the photo does not show fossilized worms, but rather surpulid worm burrows--an important distinction, as the latter consists of mineralized tube-like linings of sediment mixed with worm secretions, not soft tissue. Indeed, Baugh's statements about the ability of rapid burial to preserve soft tissue beg the question of why then there are not countless examples of soft tissue preservation from humans, other mammals, reptiles, dinosaurs, and other creatures from local strata. After all, in Baugh's model of earth history, all of these organisms lived together, and then died together in a single Flood a few thousand years ago.
In view of the above considerations, as well as the consistent lack of human remains throughout Mesozoic formations, Baugh's claims about the "finger" are questionable at best. As to what it really is, no consensus has yet developed. Some observers have suggested that the specimen may be an invertebrate burrow or a cephalopod fossil. While I see little evidence of the latter, it could be an burrow infilling. It also has the general appearance of a crustacean carapace, though no demonstrable association with known crustacean taxa has been made. Alternatively, it could just be an elongate stone or concretion that happens to resemble a finger. If one looks around a pile or rocks long enough, one can find all sorts of "sports of nature" which resemble familiar objects--much like finding faces in the clouds. Perhaps a more conclusive assessment of what the object really is could be made if Baugh allowed experts on Texas geology and paleontology to study it. One would think he at least would want to confirm whether or not its lithology is consistent with known Cretaceous rocks of Texas, but as of this writing, evidently he has not done this. Evidently his associate David Lines doesn't think this is necessary, as concludes his article on Baugh's website with two unfounded assertions: "This fossil is obviously human in its appearance, both inside and out. But it was found in Cretaceous rock."
[h=3]Conclusions[/h]As with all extraordinary claims, the burden of proof is on those making the claims, not on those questioning them. Baugh and other promoters of the "fossilized finger" have not conclusively established that it is a real fossil. Nor have they demonstrated a clear association with an ancient formation, undermining its possible value as an out-of-place object. Without this evidence, the object is merely a curiosity, not a reliable out-of-place fossil.
Oct. 2012 Update. Earlier this year I was received an email from a woman who said she gave Baugh this finger-like stone object years ago, on the condition that he return it soon. She said he has since refused to give it back, and wanted to know what recourse she had. I advised her to seek legal advice, but that to my way of thinking, if someone refused to return a borrowed item, it is tantamount to theft.
* Baugh has since removed the reference to fossilized worms from his web site, but David Lines' article there, at http://www.creationevidence.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28, still shows a photo of fossilized worm tubes, with the ambiguous and misleading caption: "Under rapid-burial conditions, the individual cells in an organism can mineralize and harden individually, preserving microscopic details of the original plant or animal." However, the photo does not show what the caption implies. The tube-like structures are not cells or any other parts of a fossil organism, but the harden remains of it's secretions as it burrowed through the mud.
[h=3]References[/h][1] Carl Wieland, "Answers in Genesis" website, at http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2003/0113peterson.asp[2] Baugh, Carl, and David Lines, Creation Evidence Museum website at: http://www.creationevidence.org. An article entitled "The Fossilized Human Finger" is attributed to David Lines, at:http://www.creationevidence.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28
[3] AIG Website article: Arguments We Think Creationists Should Not Use
[4]Biblebelievers.org website On the same anomymous page with the finger proportions, this site claims: "Excavations of this limestone has also revealed a child's tooth and human hair." Evidently the authors are unaware that creationists, including even Baugh, abandoned the "human tooth" claims after it was shown to belong to a Cretaceous fish . The human hair claim evidently traces to an excavation during the 1980's when Baugh was using a volunteer's hairbrush to clean a track bed. As recounted by local rancher Al West, who was present during the excavations, at one point Baugh noticed a hair on the substrate. Before realizing it had come from the brush, Baugh suggested it was a "fossil human hair." After this notion was met with consternation even by creationist on-lookers, Baugh dropped the matter, but evidently it somehow survived to resurface in this Australian website.
1,263,181



FUENTE.



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<center style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: medium; ">[h=1]The London Hammer:[/h][h=3]An Alleged Out-of-Place Artifact[/h](C) 1997-2008, Glen J. Kuban</center>
Acknowledgments : I wish to thank Glenn Morton, Jim Moore, Don Horne, John Tant, and David Woetzel for offering helpful comments and corrections; however, I take full responsibility for any errors that remain, and invite readers to contact me with any additional comments or corrections.
[h=3]Abstract[/h]An iron and wooden hammer, sometimes called the "London Artifact" or "London Hammer," found by local hikers in a creek bed near London, Texas in 1936, has been promoted by Carl Baugh and other strict creationists as an out-of place artifact. They maintain that the hammer, which was partially embedded in a small, limy rock concretion, originated in a Cretaceous rock formation (or an Ordovician or Silurian one, depending on the account), thus contradicting the standard geologic timetable. However, the hammer was not documented in situ, and has not been reliably associated with any specific host formation. Other relatively recent implements have been found encased in by similar nodules, and can form within centuries or even decades under proper conditions (Stromberg, 2004). The hammer in question was probably dropped or discarded by a local miner or craftsman within the last few hundred years, after which dissolved limy sediment hardened into a nodule around it. Although a brief rebuttal to Baugh's hammer claims was made by Cole (1985), Baugh and a few other creationists continue to promote it. This review provides further analysis of the hammer and creationist claims about it.
hamm0606m.jpg
Fig. 1. Hammer showing separated chunk of matrix containing what appears to be a modern clam shell.
hammer2b.jpg
Fig. 2. Hammer with broken section
of concretion repositioned.
hammtopb.jpg
Fig. 3. Top view of hammer head
Above photos (C) 1986, Glen J. Kuban

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[h=3]Background[/h]Mr. and Mrs. Max Hahn were hiking along the Red Creek near the small town of London, Texas, in June 1936 (or 1934, according to others), when they happened upon a small rock nodule with a piece of wood protruding from it. According to Helfinstine and Roth (1994), Max Hahn's son George broke open the rock nodule in 1946 or 1947, revealing the rest of the hammer, including a metal hammer head. It is important to note that even some creationist accounts (Baugh 1997, Mackay, 1985) acknowledge that the hammer bearing nodule was not attached to the surrounding rocks of the creek. Mackay (1985) explicitly states "The rock was sitting loose on a ledge and was not part of the surrounding ledge." Likewise, creationist David Lines notes that the rock containing the hammer was found "sitting loose on a rock ledge beside a waterfall outside London, Texas."(Lines, 1996).Evidently no photos or other reliable documentation exists to confirm the exact circumstances of the original discovery. However, the lack of sharp marks on the nodule seems to confirm the reports that it was found loose and not chiseled from a larger rock.
Reportedly the hammer head showed little oxidation when first revealed, and that it was smooth, with a brownish "fossil" [sic] coating, which has since become somewhat rusted and "rough" (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994). The hammer head is basically rectangular, with one end featuring concave bevels forming a pattern resembling a + sign; the other end is less distinct but contains a protrusion in the center. The handle appears to be largely unmineralized wood, although it shows some small areas of black carbonization at the ends.
Around 1983 the hammer was acquired by creationist Carl E. Baugh, an active advocate of Paluxy River "man tracks" and other alleged geologic anomalies, who began to call it the "London Artifact." In 1986 I was allowed to examine and photograph the hammer while Baugh displayed it at the 1986 creation conference in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and again in 2006 after a talk by Baugh at his "Creation Evidence Museum" in Texas.
From the start Baugh and other creationists seemed to presume without clear evidence that the nodule in question was once a natural part of the nearby rocks. They also seemed to have trouble deciding to what mainstream geologic period the nearby rocks belonged. For years Baugh claimed that it came from an Ordovician formation (Baugh, 1983, 1986, 1987), whereas Walter Lang (1983) and Bartz (1984) reported that the hammer was found in Silurian rock. A report in Creation Ex Nihilo (Mackay, 1983) stated the hammer was "in limestone dated at 300 million years old" (which would make it Pennsylvanian). A subsequent CEN article (Mackay, 1984) stated that the hammer was in "Ordovician rock, supposedly some 400 million years old" (although that age would make it Devonian, not Ordovician). In yet another CEN report (Mackay, 1985) stated, "the rocks associated with the hammer are supposedly some 400-500 million years old" (which would include part of the lower Devonian, all of the Silurian, and most of the Ordovician Period). Baugh and others (Wilson and Baugh, 1996) continued to claim the rock was in Ordovician or "Ordovecian [sic]" rock, even after researcher John Watson, according to Helfinstine and Roth (1994) pointed out that the rock outcrops at the Red Creek site were actually Lower Cretaceous (Hensell [sic] Sand Formation), to which they ascribed (incorrectly) an orthodox age "near to 135 mybp." On Baugh's 2006 web site, a FAQ addressing the question "Did man and dinosaur live at the same time?" states that the hammer was found in "Ordovician strata," whereas the "London Artifact" essay on the same web site associates the hammer with "Cretaceous rock."
Whatever the reasons for these inconsistencies in creationist reports, evidently the rock strata at the site are indeed Hensel Sand Member of the Travis Formation (Lower Cretaceous, upper Aptian stage), considered approximately 110-115 million years old by conventional geologists. Stratigraphicly the Hensel formation immediately underlies the Lower Cretaceous Glen Rose Formation, in which the Paluxy River tracks occur about 150 miles to the north. Although Mackay (1984) suggested (while calling the hammer Ordovician) that the artifact is somehow associated with those who made the supposed human footprints in Glen Rose, close examination of the Paluxy evidence does not support the presence of genuine human tracks, and no rigorous evidence has been presented by any creationists linking the hammer to the nearby strata in Red Creek, let alone those in Glen Rose.
It should be noted that although Baugh has strongly promoted the hammer as a dramatic "pre-Flood" artifact, as have a few individuals writing for the Bible-Science Association and the Creation Science Foundation, other creationists organizations, including ICR and CRSQ, have said little or nothing about it in their literature, perhaps realizing its dubious nature.
Although the hammer has been kept under close guard by Baugh and thus not readily available for detailed analysis by conventional scientists, in 1985 NCSE researcher John Cole briefly reviewed Baugh's hammer claims. Although Cole did not challenge Baugh's presumption at the time that the nearby rocks were Ordovician, Cole pointed out that minerals dissolved from ancient strata could harden around a recent object, stating:
The stone is real, and it looks impressive to someone unfamiliar with geological processes. How could a modern artifact be stuck in Ordovician rock? The answer is that the concretion itself is not Ordovician. Minerals in solution can harden around an intrusive object dropped in a crack or simply left on the ground if the source rock (in this case, reportedly Ordovician) is chemically soluble (Cole, 1985).​
Cole also noted that the hammer is of "recent American historic style," and concluded that it was probably a 19th century miner's hammer. Others have suggested that it might be a metal working hammer, and that the protrusion on one end of the head might have once contained a leather or wood cap that has since weathered away (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994). Perhaps further research will clarify its actual use and precise age.[h=3]Analysis[/h]In order to claim the hammer as a reliable out-of-place artifact, one would need either
1. Convincing documentation that the hammer was once naturally embedded in an ancient rock formation, or
2. Independent scientific evidence indicating a problematic age for the hammer.
So far neither has been provided. The lack of evidence for the first condition has already been acknowledged in creationist accounts. Independent evidence for the hammer's age could be gleaned from a number of methods, including Carbon 14 dating on the wooden handle. If there was no appreciable amount of C14 in it (beyond expected residual contamination) it would imply the hammer was more than 50,000 years old, and if younger than that, C14 could help pinpoint its actual age.
However, for years Baugh refused to allow the hammer to be C14 dated. In an exchange of letters between creationist Walter Brown and Jim Lippard in Creation/Evolution, Brown (1989) suggested that the hammer handle has not been dated because Baugh had three "understandable" conditions for dating it: that it be done with mass spectrometry, that Baugh be present during the dating, and that someone else pay for it. However, Lippard countered that no one has objected to the first two conditions, and that Baugh had no right to expect the third, since he's the one making the claims, and thus the one obligated to back them up. Even so, even after others offered to pay for the dating, Baugh declined to have it done. As Day (1991) wrote in a follow up letter: "Far from being 'understandable,' Baugh's stipulations seem to be little short of evasive tactics... If four years have gone by and nothing has happened, I think it is safe to conclude that Baugh has no interest whatsoever in determining the truth about his marvelous hammer."
Finally, in the late 1990's Baugh supporter David Lines reported on a web site (Lines, 1997, 1999) that carbon 14 dating had "recently" been done on a specimen from the inside of the handle, and that the results "showed inconclusive dates ranging from the present to 700 years ago." No information was given by Lines about when or where the dating was done, nor was any formal report referenced. The date range also seems a little curious, since most C14 labs report a date with a plus-or-minus margin of error, rather than a wide range. Perhaps a number of tests were done with different results, but Lines does not clarify this. Evidently preferring a date in the thousands of years, Lines asserted that the dating results provided "graphic evidence that the handle has been contaminated by current organic substances." However, C14 labs have ways of minimizing modern carbon contamination, and it would not likely produce ages orders of magnitude in error.
At any rate, if the reported date range is even roughly indicative of the hammer's age, it is more supportive of the mainstream view of the hammer than Baugh's. After all, Baugh considers the hammer to be a "pre-Flood" relic-- presumably at least a few thousand years old. Baugh reportedly dismissed the results as only evidence that C14 is untrustworthy. However, even many creationists consider C14 dating reasonably accurate to several thousand years or more.
Another potentially useful exercise would be to analyze the composition of the concretion, comparing its lithology and fossil content (both macro and micro) with the nearby creek strata. A shell and other shell fragments are readily visible in the nodule, and Mackay (1985) stated that the fossils in the nodule "are similar to those in the surrounding area." Likewise, Helfinstine and Roth (1994) suggest the lithology of the nodule is the same as the nearby rocks. However, to my knowledge no one has positively identified the clam species, or confirmed whether they are fossil or modern forms, or made a detailed comparison of the lithology or other aspects of concretion with that of nearby rocks. From the brief examinations I made of the object in 1986 and 2006, my impression was that the large clam shell was probably a recent species.
One problem for hammer advocates is that careful analysis of the nodule's composition could conclusively refute Baugh's claim that it is an out- of-place artifact, but could not confirm it. That is, if the nodule contained only geologically recent material, there would be no reason to consider the hammer any older. However, as noted by Cole, if the nodule contained or was composed of ancient material, the hammer itself could still be of recent origin, since it could have been left in a place where a solution of ancient sediment collected and hardened around it. Such limy concretions can sometimes form in decades or less, and have been found around modern objects such as World War II artifacts (McKusick and Shinn, 1980). It's even possible that the nodule might contain a mixture of ancient and modern sediments or organic remains, as might occur in muddy muddles and pits in a mining operation.
The early American style of the hammer, and the largely undistorted and poorly mineralized condition of the handle, further suggests a relatively recent date. Well-preserved wood from Mesozoic or Paleozoic formations would not be expected to have such an appearance, nor to my knowledge have any similar wood specimens been documented in the nearby formation. Lines asserts on Baugh's web site that the hammer is partially "petrified" but I saw no evidence of this when I examined it in person, and other creationists have agreed that the wood in the handle looks relatively fresh, not much different from modern hardwood hammers (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994). In view of these considerations, It seems highly unlikely that the hammer was ever a natural part of the nearby Cretaceous beds, and more likely that it was dropped or discarded by a local miner or craftsman within the last few hundred years. It's also possible that the nodule was brought or washed into the area from some distance away, or from a higher stratum.
Lacking any rigorous geologic evidence for their claims, hammer advocates have tried to make hay from the composition of the hammer head. Mackay (1985) and Lang (1983) reported that the hammer was studied at the renown Batelle Laboratories in Columbus, Ohio, where the head was found to consist of 96.6% iron, 2.6% chlorine, and 0.74% sulfur by weight. Baugh suggested this profile was impossible to duplicate with modern technology under present atmospheric conditions (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994). However, this claim would be difficult to substantiate. Even if the composition were truly unique, it would more likely indicate a lost or abandoned technology, not evidence against mainstream geology. According to Helfinstine and Roth (1994) a "tomographic x-ray" of the hammer, taken by Texas Utilities in 1992, showed no inclusions or irregularities in the head. Curiously, they and Baugh interpreted this as evidence of "advanced metallurgy" from a superior pre-Flood culture, rather than further evidence that it is a relatively modern hammer.
Mackay (1994) stated that "research continues into the unusually shiny transparent layer which surrounded the hammer when it was discovered and why it did not corrode for several months." However, such statements contradict other creationist comments (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994) that the hammer had a brown (and thus presumably not shiny) surface when first broken from the concretion, and only when scratched was a shiny subsurface revealed.
Lines (1996) noted that the file cut made in the hammer head in 1934 has remained "corrosion-free" in over 60 years, and some creationists have suggested this indicates some unique or mysterious attribute. However, as long a metal object is kept dry and clean, this would not be unexpected, and the bulk of the head already in a somewhat rusted condition would be expected to oxidize somewhat faster than the scratched mark.
In the Bible-Science Newsletter, Walter Lang (1983) stated that Batelle lab technicians "were convinced that the rock itself could not have been formed except where there was a great deal of water and pressure," and that the "partly coalified" condition of the handle indicated to the technicians that the wood was "under pressure with water and volcanic action." However, one has to wonder whether these statements come from the technicians or hammer advocates themselves, since 1. Limy concretions are generally thought by geologists to form in calm rather than violent conditions, 2. Very little of the hammer handle is carbonized, and such features can and normally do originate without any "volcanic" action, and 3. No formal report of the Batelle analysis was ever produced (Helfinstine and Roth, 1994). Moreover, all assertions about Batelle work on the hammer appear to be suspect in view of a leaflet inserted into the February 1985 issue of Creation Ex Nihilo, which stated that all hammer research discussed in their article was privately done, and "all references to inferences that research or reports on the Hammer were done or prepared by Batelle Laboratories are in error."(Mackay 1985)
Another weak attempt to counter "evolutionist" skepticism toward Baugh's hammer claims was a comment by Mackay that "If it had been dropped under present atmospheric conditions and had to lie waiting to be buried, it would have lasted no longer than five years, after being buried." However, the hammer need not "lie waiting" very long before being buried; it could have fallen into an area where it would be soon if not immediately subject to a sediment solution. Once buried, it would be largely protected from decay in either the mainstream scenario or his own.
During a June 2006 talk at his Creation Evidence Musuem, Baugh again left the impression that the hammer was found embedded in a Cretaceous formation--telling the audience that it was found "in Cretaceous strata"-- and again failing to clarify that the hammer and nudule combination was found loose rather than in situ. As recently as September 2008 Baugh supporter Ian Juby encouraged the same unfounded notions on his web site, implying that it was known to be from Cretaceous rock (Juby, 2008).
Perhaps the most bizarre claim about the hammer was Baugh's statement that "Both the wooden handle and metal shaft were completely encased in the sandstone, indicating that man was not around to make the artefact [sic] before the sandstone encased it."(Baugh, 1987). Besides contradicting other accounts that the hammer was partly exposed when found, Baugh fails to explain how the hammer could have been made in the first place if "man was not around...before the sandstone encased it."
[h=3]Conclusions[/h]As with all extraordinary claims, the burden of proof is on those making the claims, not on those questioning them. Despite some creationist assertions that the hammer is a dramatic pre-Flood relic, no clear evidence linking the hammer to any ancient formation has been presented. Moreover, the hammer's artistic style and the condition of the handle suggest a historically recent age. It may well have been dropped by a local worker within the last few hundred years, after which dissolved sediment hardened into a concretion around it. Unless Baugh or others can provide rigorous evidence that the hammer was once naturally situated in a pre-Quaternary stratum, it remains merely a curiosity, not a reliable out-of-place artifact.
[h=3]References[/h]Bartz, Paul A. (ed) 1984. Questions and Answers on Creationism. Bible-Science Newsletter . July 1984. Vol. 22, No. 4. p. 16.
Baugh, Carl E. 1983. Enemies Survived Together for a While. (Video Tape). Crystal City, MO. International Bible College.
Baugh, Carl E. 1986. Creation Evidences in Color. Creation Evidences Museum. Glen Rose, TX.
Baugh, Carl E., 1997. Dinosaur: Scientific Evidence That Dinosaurs and Men Walked Together. Promise Publishing. Orange, CA.
Brown, Walter. 1989. Brown Responds to Lippard. Creation/Evolution Fall 1989. Issue XXV.
Cole, John R. 1985. If I Had a Hammer. Creation/Evolution. 5(1):47-56.
Day, R. P. J. Untitled Letter. Creation/Evolution Winter 1990-91. Issue XXVII., p. 47.
Helfinstine, Robert F., and Jerry D. Roth. 1994. Texas Tracks and Artifacts: Do Texas Fossils Indicate Coexistence of Men and Dinosaurs? (No publisher listed).
Juby, Ian, "Display #7: Hammer in Creataceous rocks: The London Artifact," web article at: http://ianjuby.org/tour7.html
Lang, Walter. Dec. 1983. "Lab Test Report on Hammer!: Paluxy Progress" Bible-Science Newsletter. Vol. 21. No. 12. p. 1.
Lines, David, 1996. The London Artifact: An Iron Hammer in Stone, website article at http://home.texoma.net/~linesden/cem/hamr/hamrfs.htm
Lippard, Jim. An Examination of the Research of Creationist Walter Brown. Creation/Evolution Fall 1989. Issue XXV.
Mackay, John (ed). "Fossil Hammer". Creation Ex Nihilo April 1983. Vol. 1, No. 4.
Mackay, John (ed). "Ordovician Hammer Report". Creation Ex Nihilo Feb. 1984. Vol. 2, No. 3.
Mackay, John (ed). "Pre-Flood Hammer Update". Creation Ex Nihilo Nov. 1985. Vol. 8, No. 1.
McKusick, M. and E. A. Shinn. 1980. "Bahamian Atlantis Reconsidered." Nature Vol. 287, September 4, pp. 11-12.
von Buttlar, Johannes. 1991. Adams Planet. Herbig Verlag, Muumlnchen, p. 172.
Stromberg, Pierre, and Heinrich, 2004, "The Coso Artifact: Mystery From the Depths of Time?" NCSC Reports, Volume 24, Number 2, Published March, 2004. Website version available athttp://www.ncseweb.org/newsletter.asp?curiss=42
Wilson, Clifford, and Baugh, Carl E. 1996. Footprints and the Stones of Time. PCM Christian Press, Victoria, Australia, p. 87.

Paluxy home page

1,263,195
Originally posted 17 October, 1999
Revised: 14 July, 2006, Added remark about Baugh's web site referring to hammer as being in Ordovician rock and on another page, Cretaceous rock.1 Jan, 2006, Added reference to Stromberg & Heinrich, NCSE Reports on the "Coso artifact."
20 October, 1999, GJK, Revisions on Hensel Sand Formation and new mention of attempts to link hammer to Glen Rose tracks.
Note: Page was visited 13,573 times from 18 Nov, 1999 to 05 Dec 2004 when new counter was added. Counter lost before 2005. New Counter added 5-22-2007.


FUENTE.



Las respuestas para muchas alegaciones sin pruebas, se encuentran aqui.
Asi que si usted usa su lluvia de texts, tambien se puede responder de la misma manera.

LINKY.


Me sorprende que no dijo nada de lo que traje. :gent:


 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

¿Cómo explican los evolucionistas que exista un dedo humano fosilizado?

fossil-finger+finger-th.jpg


http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossilized-human-finger.htm

¿Y qué hay de este martillo de acero de "millones de años"?

hammer-th.jpg


http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossilized-hammer.htm


Hay que hueva.

Le traigo el estudio de los casos expuestos y los resultados.


An alleged cretaceous finger


The London Hammer

[h=1]Stegosaurus Carving on a Cambodian Temple?[/h]
En caso que traiga mas... LINKY.


Me sorprende que no dijo nada de lo que traje. :gent:


Me tengo que levantar temprano, buenas noches. :Zzzz:

 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Las mutaciones no se generan necesariamente por factores externos, el ADN puede mutar espontaneamente. ¿No sería eso un cambio "autónomo"?


Si el ADN mutara, digamos, espontáneamente, seria un desorden ¿no crees? El ADN es como la leyes físicas. Así como la naturaleza esta sujeta a ellas. Por ejemplo, una piedra espontáneamente no puede cambiar su inmovilidad para saltar por los aires. Se requiere de una fuerza externa mayor que la gravedad para que la piedra se mueva hacia al aire. Si el ADN cambiara, se deberá a causas externas, ya sea un virus, radiación... ¿No crees que es improbable que el ADN cambie espontáneamente por si mismo libremente?
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Si el ADN mutara, digamos, espontáneamente, seria un desorden ¿no crees? El ADN es como la leyes físicas. Así como la naturaleza esta sujeta a ellas. Por ejemplo, una piedra espontáneamente no puede cambiar su inmovilidad para saltar por los aires. Se requiere de una fuerza externa mayor que la gravedad para que la piedra se mueva hacia al aire. Si el ADN cambiara, se deberá a causas externas, ya sea un virus, radiación... ¿No crees que es improbable que el ADN cambie espontáneamente por si mismo libremente?
Exacto, Espíritu..!!
La EVolucion fue dirigida por una Entidad Cosmica, una Mente cosmica..
Un DIOS.-..
Si no hay un Plan atrás, ¿COMO HACES PARA QUE DE UNA PROCARIOTRA TERMINE UN CEREBRO AL CABO DE MILLONES DE AÑOS?..
¿cOMO SABRIA EL azar , CONSTRUIR UN CEREBRO QUE PIENSA, SIENTE.
iMPOSIBLE!!
sE NECESITA UNA NUEVA RELIGION ..Las que tenemos son antiguas , vetustas..Son infantiles..
Por ejmplo sostner que aquel que no cree en un INFIERNO irá por eso mismo a ese INFIERNO..
eS DESABELLADO castigar a alguien por no cree en ALGO..
Por ejmeplo, es infantil creer que CAMARONERO irá al infierno..
Son creencias de aquellas mentes torpes, primitivas, ingenuas de los judiós de los milenis anteriores, de los judíos conmvertido del siglo I..Por ejemplo ese torpe de PABLO que no permitía que las mujeres hablaran al publico o que se embellecieran para conseguir marido..
No van más esas reilgiones..La humandiad alcanzó un estadio superior de benevolencia, generosidad, respeto al otro que piensa dsitinto y tiene otras opciones de vida..Ej : es inconcebible que un gay o una actiz porno vayan al infierno por sus opciones sexuales.Si esas opciones las realizan respetando al otro, ¿porque se lo habría de castigar?
Se necesita, UNA NUEVA RELIGION, ahora UNIVERSAL..

 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Si el ADN mutara, digamos, espontáneamente, seria un desorden ¿no crees? El ADN es como la leyes físicas. Así como la naturaleza esta sujeta a ellas. Por ejemplo, una piedra espontáneamente no puede cambiar su inmovilidad para saltar por los aires. Se requiere de una fuerza externa mayor que la gravedad para que la piedra se mueva hacia al aire. Si el ADN cambiara, se deberá a causas externas, ya sea un virus, radiación... ¿No crees que es improbable que el ADN cambie espontáneamente por si mismo libremente?

Pués si muta espontaneamente, durante el proceso de transcripción pueden ocurrir errores de "escritura", generalmente estos errores se reparan pero no siempre, cuando eso ocurre, la nueva información o la pérdida de la misma, pasan a la siguiente generación.
 
Re: Breve historia de la teoría de la evolución

Pués si muta espontaneamente, durante el proceso de transcripción pueden ocurrir errores de "escritura", generalmente estos errores se reparan pero no siempre, cuando eso ocurre, la nueva información o la pérdida de la misma, pasan a la siguiente generación.

pues con suerte se encontrara con la hembra ,,verdad?? la cual mutara de forma bien diferente al macho .. sin contar conque ambos sistemas reproductivos deberiar adivinar como entre los dos funcionar bien no crees???

es como cuando una amiba le pregunta a otra ,,


que es ese palito con bolitas que te salio ???

- pues no se ,,quisas para jugar bolitihoyo

-ahhh

-pero no te preocupes ,,,

despues de 1millon de anos tu mutaras pero diferente ,,, a ti te saldra el hollito para yo poder meter mi palito jeje,