Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

ah.

me faltó en el post anterior decir que, solo en ee.uu, son mas de 4000 los curas envueltos en estos hechos.

asi que dime...el sr. bertone usa la calculadora de chavez para sacar porcentajes?
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

entonces, si las estadisticas son verdaderas, explicame una cosita.

como es posible que solo el 1.2% de los curas a nivel mundial sean pederastas(4mil y pico, segun el censo del ´97) y solo en ee.uu, la icar reconozca mas de 11.000 incidentes de abuso?

estan trabajando en horario extendido?

No te confundas.... son 11,000 denuncias durante 52 años, y no todas fueron confirmadas.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

ah.

me faltó en el post anterior decir que, solo en ee.uu, son mas de 4000 los curas envueltos en estos hechos.

asi que dime...el sr. bertone usa la calculadora de chavez para sacar porcentajes?

A propósito de estadísticas

By Mark Clayton, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor / April 5, 2002

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.

These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.

CMR's annual surveys of about 1,000 churches nationwide have asked about sexual abuse since 1993. They're a remarkable window on a problem that lurked largely in the shadows of public awareness until the Catholic scandals arose.

The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.

"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests."
At least 70 incidents a week

Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.

James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren't the major offenders.

"The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers," he says.

Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5 percent – are Roman Catholic. Catholic churches represent a slightly smaller minority of churches in the CMR surveys which aren't scientifically random, but "representative" demographic samples of churches, Dr. Cobble explains.

Since 1993, on average about 1 percent of the surveyed churches reported abuse allegations annually. That means on average, about 3,500 allegations annually, or nearly 70 per among the predominantly Protestant group, Cobble says.

The CMR findings also reveal:

• Most church child-sexual-abuse cases involve a single victim.

• Law suits or out-of-court settlements were a result in 21 percent of the allegations reported in the 2000 survey.

• Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers – about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children.

Still, it is the reduction of reported allegations over nine years that seems to indicate that some churches are learning how to slow abuse allegations with tough new prevention measures, say insurance company officials and church officials themselves.

The peak year for allegations was 1994, with 3 percent of churches reporting an allegation of sexual misconduct compared with just 0.1 percent in 2000. But 2001 data, indicates a swing back to the 1 percent level, still significantly less than the 1993 figures, Cobble says.

Child sexual-abuse insurance claims have slowed, too, industry sources say.

Hugh White, vice president of marketing for Brotherhood Mutual Insurance, in Ft. Wayne, Ind., suggests that the amount of abuse reported in the CMR 2001 data is reasonable though "at the higher end" of the scale.

Mr. White's company insures 30,000 churches – about 0.2 percent to 0.3 percent of which annually report an "incident" of child sexual abuse. But he says that his churches are more highly educated on child abuse prevention procedures than most, which may account for a lower rate of reported abuse than the CMR surveys.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p...l/(page)/2
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

No te confundas.... son 11,000 denuncias durante 52 años, y no todas fueron confirmadas.

sip, si lo dices asi, suena mas bonito.

si usas una calculadora buena (no la de chavez) seria casi un abuso diario durante 52 años solo en ee.uu.

vez? ahora no suena tan bonito.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

sip, si lo dices asi, suena mas bonito.

si usas una calculadora buena (no la de chavez) seria casi un abuso diario durante 52 años solo en ee.uu.

vez? ahora no suena tan bonito.

Claro el enfoque en la astilla del ojo católico........ pero acá , calladito es Ud. el que se ve mas bonito verdad?

National News
Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year

By Rose French
June 18, 2007

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.

The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down � the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.

Religious groups and victims' supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.

Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.

Some of the only numbers come from three insurance companies � Church Mutual Insurance Co., GuideOne Insurance Co. and Brotherhood Mutual Insurance Co.

Together, they insure 165,495 churches and worship centers for liability against child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct, mostly Protestant congregations but a few other faiths as well. They also insure more than 5,500 religious schools, camps and other organizations.

The companies represent a large chunk of all U.S. Protestant churches. There are about 224,000 in the U.S., according to the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, although that number excludes most historically black denominations and some other groups, which account for several thousand congregations.

Church Mutual, GuideOne and Brotherhood Mutual each provided statistics on sex abuse claims to The Associated Press, although they did not produce supporting documentation or a way to determine whether the reports were credible.

The largest company, Church Mutual, reported an average of about 100 sex abuse cases a year involving minors over the past decade. GuideOne, which has about half the clients of Church Mutual, said it has received an average of 160 reports of sex abuse against minors every year for the past two decades.

Brotherhood Mutual said it has received an average of 73 reports of child sex abuse and other sexual misconduct every year for the past 15 years. However, Brotherhood does not specify which victims are younger than 18 so it is impossible to accurately add that to the total cases.

Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said. The reports include accusations against clergy, church staff and volunteers.

Even with hundreds of cases a year "that's a very small number. That probably doesn't even constitute half,'' said Gary Schoener, director of the Walk-In Counseling Center in Minneapolis, a consultant on hundreds of Protestant and Catholic clergy misconduct cases. "Sex abuse in any domain, including the church, is reported seldom. We know a small amount actually come forward.''

Tom Farr, general counsel and senior vice president of claims for GuideOne, based in West Des Moines, Iowa, said most abuse cases are resolved privately in court-ordered mediation. Awards can range from millions of dollars down to paying for counseling for victims, he said. OUCH!



One of the largest settlements to date in Protestant churches involved the case of former Lutheran minister Gerald Patrick Thomas Jr. in Texas, where a jury several years ago awarded the minister's victims nearly $37 million (euro28 million). Separate earlier settlements involving Thomas cost an additional $32 million.
TRIPLE OUCH!!!!!!
When insurance companies first started getting reports of abuse from churches nearly two decades ago, the cases usually involved abuse that happened many years earlier. But over the past several years, the alleged abuse is more recent, which could reflect a greater awareness about reporting abuse, insurance companies said.

Insurance officials said the number of sex abuse cases has remained steady over the past two decades, but they also said churches are working harder to prevent child sex abuse by conducting background checks, installing windows in nurseries and play areas and requiring at least two adults in a room with a child.

A victims' advocacy group has said the Southern Baptists, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, could do more to prevent abuse by creating a list of accused clergy the public and churches could access.

"These are things people are entitled to know,'' said Christa Brown, a member of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, who says she was sexually abused as a child by a Southern Baptist minister. "The only way to prevent this crime is to break the code of silence and to have absolute transparency when allegations are raised.''

At the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting in San Antonio this week, the Rev. Wade Burleson proposed a feasibility study into developing a national database of Southern Baptist ministers who have been "credibly accused of, personally confessed to, or legally been convicted of sexual harassment or abuse.''

A convention committee referred Burleson's motion to the SBC executive committee, which will report back with findings and a recommendation at next year's meeting in Indianapolis.

Southern Baptist President Frank Page said leaders are considering several options to help churches protect children against abuse.

"We believe that the Scripture teaches that the church should be an autonomous, independent organization,'' Page said. "We encourage churches to hold accountable at the local level those who may have misused the trust of precious children and youth.''

Several years ago, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which represents moderates who have increasingly distanced themselves from the conservative-led Southern Baptists, started a list of accused clergy for churches, but not the public. Under pressure from victim advocates, the Texas group just released the names of some convicted sex offenders who may have been ministers in local congregations.

Joe Trull, editor of Christian Ethics Today and retired ethics professor at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, helped the Texas convention create its registry and says there are now about 11 cases involving clergy abuse with minors.

But he believes these are just the "tip of the iceberg'' because churches don't have to report abuse cases to the registry and aren't likely to.

"The problem we're having is that churches just weren't sending the names,'' Trull said. "In the normal scenario, they just try to keep it secret. We're going to have to be more proactive and let them know if they don't come forward, they're helping to perpetuate this problem.''


Read more: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm#ixzz10UJliOYx[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

sip, si lo dices asi, suena mas bonito.

si usas una calculadora buena (no la de chavez) seria casi un abuso diario durante 52 años solo en ee.uu.

vez? ahora no suena tan bonito.
Y quien demonios ha dicho que suene bonito???????????????????

Úbicate niño.... ningún católico busca justificar estos abusos. Simplemente pedimos que nos ofrezcan datos reales sin exageraciones, y de igual manera comprendan que ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

Y nadie, pero nadie , ha dicho que suene bonito!!
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

veo que eres un buen manipulador de informacion, vino tinto.

encontrarias trabajo rapido aqui en venezuela, en la agencia del gobierno.

te falto resaltar en rojo, lo siguiente:

Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers – about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children.

perdon...tuve que resaltarlo todo en rojo, ya que al parecer, tu mismo no lees lo que copias y pasteas.

saca la calculadora, vino.

Abuse reports do not always mean the accused was guilty, and they do not necessarily result in financial awards or settlements, the companies said.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Y quien demonios ha dicho que suene bonito???????????????????

Úbicate niño.... ningún católico busca justificar estos abusos. Simplemente pedimos que nos ofrezcan datos reales sin exageraciones, y de igual manera comprendan que ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

Y nadie, pero nadie , ha dicho que suene bonito!!


Lo uncio que te falta es decire q
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Y quien demonios ha dicho que suene bonito???????????????????

Úbicate niño.... ningún católico busca justificar estos abusos. Simplemente pedimos que nos ofrezcan datos reales sin exageraciones, y de igual manera comprendan que ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

Y nadie, pero nadie , ha dicho que suene bonito!!


<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Según tu, el problema de los sacerdotes católicos abusadores de menores es culpa de los evangelistas y de la prensa que inventa noticias .
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Según tu, el problema de los sacerdotes católicos abusadores de menores es culpa de los evangelistas y de la prensa que inventa noticias .

Dónde dije eso eso?????

Vamos Tony, dime, de cuál de mis mensajes lograste llegar a tan absurda conclusión???
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Y quien demonios ha dicho que suene bonito???????????????????

Úbicate niño.... ningún católico busca justificar estos abusos. Simplemente pedimos que nos ofrezcan datos reales sin exageraciones, y de igual manera comprendan que ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

Y nadie, pero nadie , ha dicho que suene bonito!!

No te confundas.... son 11,000 denuncias durante 52 años, y no todas fueron confirmadas.

Tratar de restarle importancia porque las denuncias fueron a traves de 52 años, es solo maquillaje para tratar de hacer pasar las cifras por debajo de la mesa.

ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

pues parece que no hizo bien su trabajo:

Volunteers are more likely than clergy(alcontrario de la icar) or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers – about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children.

bon appetit.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Aquí cada uno se pasa la pelota, y nadie es capaz de reconocer sus errores.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Aquí cada uno se pasa la pelota, y nadie es capaz de reconocer sus errores.

esta ud. equivocado, estimado.

si lee unas cuantas paginas atras, se dara cuenta que por mi parte, sería yo el primero en estamparle la suela de mi zapato en el trasero a cualquier autoridad de mi iglesia que osara cometer tal abuso, mientras tanto, otros justifican tales atrocidades diciendo que, "los obispos no son fiscales" y no estan obligados a denunciar los casos(palabras mas, palabras menos).
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Aquí cada uno se pasa la pelota, y nadie es capaz de reconocer sus errores.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Igualmente nadie se hace cargo de sus ignorancias .
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Tratar de restarle importancia porque las denuncias fueron a traves de 52 años, es solo maquillaje para tratar de hacer pasar las cifras por debajo de la mesa.

No seas insolente!!!........... ni por abajo de la mesa ni con exageraciones. Tu sacaste tu "calculadora" y agrupaste 52 años en uno solo. Repito, aunque te canses de leerlo, platiquemos con cifras reales, sin distorsiones, sin exageraciones, sin generalizaciones.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabla normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> Aquí cada uno se pasa la pelota, y nadie es capaz de reconocer sus errores.

Nooooooooooooooo

Nosotros sí los reconocemos!!!.........y hasta hemos pedido perdón por ello. Pero si molesta bastante que los protestantes se hagan los desentendidos del adunto pretendiendo engañar a la audiencia al decir que este es un problema exclusivo de los católicos, y eso no es verdad. Somos tan culpables los unos como los otros, y eso no lo reconocen ellos.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Si yo fuera católico no hablara de esos temas, sólo aquí en España, la Icar, y sólo la ICAR, recibe millones de euros que realmente no sé en qué lo gastan, sin contar con las donaciones de los feligreses.
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Nooooooooooooooo

Nosotros sí los reconocemos!!!.........y hasta hemos pedido perdón por ello. Pero si molesta bastante que los protestantes se hagan los desentendidos del adunto pretendiendo engañar a la audiencia al decir que este es un problema exclusivo de los católicos, y eso no es verdad. Somos tan culpables los unos como los otros, y eso no lo reconocen ellos.

Úbicate niño.... ningún católico busca justificar estos abusos. Simplemente pedimos que nos ofrezcan datos reales sin exageraciones, y de igual manera comprendan que ustedes como protestantes cometen aún más abusos que los sacerdotes católicos. Y eso es lo que te muestra Vino Tinto con ese informe.

ves strauss?

ya casi casi que te sinceras.

solo falta que dejes esa tactica de t.j, de ponerte a la defensiva como "tigra recien parida".
 
Re: Poque piden tanto dinero ls Pastores???????????

Si yo fuera católico no hablara de esos temas, sólo aquí en España, la Icar, y sólo la ICAR, recibe millones de euros que realmente no sé en qué lo gastan, sin contar con las donaciones de los feligreses.

No esperaba menos de tí Spurgeon............ pues infórmate:



N. G. - Madrid - 17/06/2010

A menos de dos semanas de que acabe el plazo para la declaración de la renta 2009, la Iglesia católica echa el resto para convencer a los contribuyentes para que marquen la X en su casilla y que ese 0,7% de la cuota del IRPF vaya a las arcas eclesiásticas. La memoria económica presentada ayer por la Conferencia Episcopal, la de 2008, incluye un curioso cálculo. Cuánto costarían, a precio de mercado, los servicios que prestan a la sociedad. Pues 1.860 millones de euros más de lo que suponen ahora. Es decir, cada euro invertido en la Iglesia revierte a la sociedad multiplicado por 2,73, aseguró el responsable de asuntos económicos de la Conferencia Episcopal, Fernando Giménez Barriocanal. "Y eso valorado a la baja", recalcó antes de precisar que un obispo cobra unos mil euros. Por ejemplo, la Iglesia católica considera que la enseñanza concertada en centros católicos supone al Estado un ahorro de 4.148 millones de euros. Explicó también que Cáritas atendió -dio de comer e incluso vistió- a 2,8 millones de personas en 2008 y que no es descabellado pensar que la crisis económica haya duplicado ese flujo de personas necesitadas de lo más básico.
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Y en vista de que uno de cada tres monumentos culturales españoles pertenece a la Iglesia católica -que, por cierto, gasta 50 millones anuales en mantenerlos-, el gerente considera que "no es pretencioso decir" que un tercio de los ingresos derivados del turismo cultural llegan gracias a ella.

La crisis, que ha abaratado la publicidad, y el fin de los anuncios en RTVE han logrado que los tres millones de euros invertidos en esta campaña de la Iglesia Xtantos -lo mismo que otros años- hayan cundido más. Hace justo un año, el 34,3% de los contribuyentes marcó la casilla católica, lo que equivale a una aportación de 252 millones de euros. Giménez Barriocanal consideraría un éxito mantener ese porcentaje este año.


En otras agencias de noticias son más claros aún




MADRID, 17 Jun. 10 / 01:32 pm (ACI/Europa Press)

El vicesecretario de Asuntos Económicos de la Conferencia Episcopal Española (CEE), Fernando Giménez Barriocanal, ha asegurado este jueves que el Estado ahorra miles de millones de euros y, pese a que no quiso ofrecer una cifra concreta, ha añadido que la previsión de 30 mil millones de euros "no estaba alejada de la realidad".

Durante la presentación de la Memoria Justificativa de Actividades correspondiente al ejercicio 2008, Barriocanal ha defendido la labor de la Iglesia en el ámbito litúrgico, pastoral y asistencial. Sobre este último aspecto, ha reconocido que la Iglesia es "la mayor realidad asistencial que existe en España".


Así que ya sabes......... marca la casilla!!