Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
- Autor Eidher
- Fecha de inicio
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
OK tu dices que por la iglesia católica conocemos lo que
Cristo y sus apóstoles hicieron y por esa razón tiene su crédito
Y esa razón fue el comentario o comparación como tú quieras ponerle
OK tu dices que por la iglesia católica conocemos lo que
Cristo y sus apóstoles hicieron y por esa razón tiene su crédito
Y esa razón fue el comentario o comparación como tú quieras ponerle
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Creo que entendi, creo...
Si te refieres a que Satanas causo que Eva desobedeciera a Dios, pues si.
Los judios igualmente, sin embargo eso fue profetizado y era necesario que ocurriera.
No se si conteste bien.
Creo que entendi, creo...
Si te refieres a que Satanas causo que Eva desobedeciera a Dios, pues si.
Los judios igualmente, sin embargo eso fue profetizado y era necesario que ocurriera.
No se si conteste bien.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Cierto, ahora quisiera yo saber algo.
¿Que cosas enseña la iglesia catolica que no enseña la iglesia primitiva, o que no creian?
Cierto, ahora quisiera yo saber algo.
¿Que cosas enseña la iglesia catolica que no enseña la iglesia primitiva, o que no creian?
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Vamos, como te dije ya yo se la contestacion, pero te pregunto para saber si hay algo que tu no sepas.
Ojo, no te estoy pidiendo citas biblicas, estoy pidiendote historia.
Dime una enseñanza, y yo traigo las citas historicas que revelan lo que decia la Iglesia Primitiva al respecto.
Con la historia amigo.
Vamos, como te dije ya yo se la contestacion, pero te pregunto para saber si hay algo que tu no sepas.
Ojo, no te estoy pidiendo citas biblicas, estoy pidiendote historia.
Dime una enseñanza, y yo traigo las citas historicas que revelan lo que decia la Iglesia Primitiva al respecto.
Con la historia amigo.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Tienes razón, no existian porque los cristianos no se habían dado cuenta de las herejias de la ICAR.
Tienes razón, no existian porque los cristianos no se habían dado cuenta de las herejias de la ICAR.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Bendiciones.
SOBRECARGA DE IGNORANCIA!!!
Bendiciones.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
- Bautismo de niños.
- Mariolatria.
- Papas
- Purgatorio
- Idolatría
.................etc, etc, etc......................
- Bautismo de niños.
- Mariolatria.
- Papas
- Purgatorio
- Idolatría
.................etc, etc, etc......................
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Pero es algo contradictorio. ¿Tú crees en la historia o tradición?
¿No importa si es contraria a la escritura o no? ¿O si va de acuerdo?
En Resumidas cuentas para no entrar en rodeos
¿Quien tiene mas valides y razonable? ¿La escritura o la historia (tradición)?
No se si me explique
saludos
Se mas o menos adonde quieres llegar
Pero es algo contradictorio. ¿Tú crees en la historia o tradición?
¿No importa si es contraria a la escritura o no? ¿O si va de acuerdo?
En Resumidas cuentas para no entrar en rodeos
¿Quien tiene mas valides y razonable? ¿La escritura o la historia (tradición)?
No se si me explique
saludos
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
saludos
Fíjate lo que dices… ¿entonces crees que los cristianos primitivos eran católicos y se apartaron de ellos?
saludos
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
No, me refería a los mismos católicos, no se dieron cuenta de las herejias que fueron contaminando su religión.
No, me refería a los mismos católicos, no se dieron cuenta de las herejias que fueron contaminando su religión.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Bautismo de niños:
"And they shall baptise the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family." Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition, 21 (c. A.D. 215).
"[T]herefore children are also baptized." Origen, Homily on Luke, XIV (A.D. 233).
"For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too." Origen, Homily on Romans, V:9 (A.D. 244).
"Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous." Origen, Homily on Leviticus, 8:3 (post A.D. 244).
"But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day...And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism...we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…" Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).
Mariolatria:
Madre de Dios:
"After this, we receive the doctrine of the resurrection from the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the first-fruits; Who bore a Body, in truth, not in semblance, derived from Mary the mother of God in the fullness of time sojourning among the race, for the remission of sins: who was crucified and died, yet for all this suffered no diminution of His Godhead." Alexander of Alexandria, Epistle to Alexander, 12 (A.D. 324).
And the Angel on his appearance, himself confesses that he has been sent by his Lord; as Gabriel confessed in the case of Zacharias, and also in the case of Mary, bearer of God." Athanasius, Orations III, 14(A.D. 362).
Inmaculada Concepcion:
"He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption." Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).
"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one." Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
"Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary." Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).
"Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother." Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).
"O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides." Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).
"Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin." Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).
"We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin." Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).
Virginidad Perpetua:
"[T]he Son of God...was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit..." Epiphanius, Well Anchored Man, 120 (A.D. 374).
"The friends of Christ do not tolerate hearing that the Mother of God ever ceased to be a virgin" Basil, Homily In Sanctum Christi generationem, 5 (ante A.D. 379).
Asuncion:
“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one...Had she been martyred according to what is written: 'Thine own soul a sword shall pierce', then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
"[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..." Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).
Intercesora:
"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).
Papa:
"Stephen, that he who so boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid...Stephen, who announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter." Pope Stephen I [regn. A.D. 254-257], Firmilian to Cyprian, Epistle 74/75:17 (A.D. 256).
3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.
Irineo (Contra las Herejias 3, 3, 3)
Purgatorio:
"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again receives her. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shaft have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the just." Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160).
"Abercius by name, I am a disciple of the chaste shepherd...He taught me…faithful writings...These words, I, Abercius, standing by, ordered to be inscribed. In truth, I was in the course of my seventy-second year. Let him who understands and believes this pray fro Abercius." Inscription of Abercius (A.D. 190).
Idolatria: ¿Donde la Iglesia enseña eso?
La Iglesia Catolica al igua que la Primitiva, no enseñan que exista otro Dios solamente el Dios Trino Padre, Hijo y Espiritu Santo. Por lo tanto la Iglesia Catolica y Primitiva no enseñan la idolatria.
Cuando quieras, me dices el "etc, etc, etc..." para traer mas
Bautismo de niños:
"And they shall baptise the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family." Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition, 21 (c. A.D. 215).
"[T]herefore children are also baptized." Origen, Homily on Luke, XIV (A.D. 233).
"For this reason, moreover, the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too." Origen, Homily on Romans, V:9 (A.D. 244).
"Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous." Origen, Homily on Leviticus, 8:3 (post A.D. 244).
"But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day...And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism...we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…" Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).
Mariolatria:
Madre de Dios:
"After this, we receive the doctrine of the resurrection from the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the first-fruits; Who bore a Body, in truth, not in semblance, derived from Mary the mother of God in the fullness of time sojourning among the race, for the remission of sins: who was crucified and died, yet for all this suffered no diminution of His Godhead." Alexander of Alexandria, Epistle to Alexander, 12 (A.D. 324).
And the Angel on his appearance, himself confesses that he has been sent by his Lord; as Gabriel confessed in the case of Zacharias, and also in the case of Mary, bearer of God." Athanasius, Orations III, 14(A.D. 362).
Inmaculada Concepcion:
"He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption." Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).
"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one." Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).
"Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary." Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).
"Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother." Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).
"O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides." Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).
"Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin." Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).
"We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin." Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).
Virginidad Perpetua:
"[T]he Son of God...was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit..." Epiphanius, Well Anchored Man, 120 (A.D. 374).
"The friends of Christ do not tolerate hearing that the Mother of God ever ceased to be a virgin" Basil, Homily In Sanctum Christi generationem, 5 (ante A.D. 379).
Asuncion:
“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one...Had she been martyred according to what is written: 'Thine own soul a sword shall pierce', then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
"[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones..." Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).
Intercesora:
"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).
Papa:
"Stephen, that he who so boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid...Stephen, who announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter." Pope Stephen I [regn. A.D. 254-257], Firmilian to Cyprian, Epistle 74/75:17 (A.D. 256).
3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.
Irineo (Contra las Herejias 3, 3, 3)
Purgatorio:
"And after the exhibition, Tryphaena again receives her. For her daughter Falconilla had died, and said to her in a dream: Mother, thou shaft have this stranger Thecla in my place, in order that she may pray concerning me, and that I may be transferred to the place of the just." Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160).
"Abercius by name, I am a disciple of the chaste shepherd...He taught me…faithful writings...These words, I, Abercius, standing by, ordered to be inscribed. In truth, I was in the course of my seventy-second year. Let him who understands and believes this pray fro Abercius." Inscription of Abercius (A.D. 190).
Idolatria: ¿Donde la Iglesia enseña eso?
La Iglesia Catolica al igua que la Primitiva, no enseñan que exista otro Dios solamente el Dios Trino Padre, Hijo y Espiritu Santo. Por lo tanto la Iglesia Catolica y Primitiva no enseñan la idolatria.
Cuando quieras, me dices el "etc, etc, etc..." para traer mas
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Bueno, la historia es objetiva, la historia no cambia.
Sí importa si es contraria a la escritura, fijate, lo que sucede es que si comparas lo que tu piensas e interpretas con lo que enseñaron los primeros cristianos, y piensas diferente entonces piensas que tu estas bien y ellos mal, cuando ellos recibieron directamente las enseñanzas de los Apostoles.
O sea, en otras palabras, te conviertes en tu propio interprete infalible.
Entonces si ellos recibieron las enseñanzas orales y escritas de los Apostoles directamente, y las interpretaron de una forma, es obvio que es la forma correcta, a menos que digas que los Apostoles interpretaron mal las enseñanzas de Cristo.
En respuesta resumida, las dos son validas y razonables, ya que de la historia (tradicion) es que sale la escritura, no al reves.
Bueno, la historia es objetiva, la historia no cambia.
Sí importa si es contraria a la escritura, fijate, lo que sucede es que si comparas lo que tu piensas e interpretas con lo que enseñaron los primeros cristianos, y piensas diferente entonces piensas que tu estas bien y ellos mal, cuando ellos recibieron directamente las enseñanzas de los Apostoles.
O sea, en otras palabras, te conviertes en tu propio interprete infalible.
Entonces si ellos recibieron las enseñanzas orales y escritas de los Apostoles directamente, y las interpretaron de una forma, es obvio que es la forma correcta, a menos que digas que los Apostoles interpretaron mal las enseñanzas de Cristo.
En respuesta resumida, las dos son validas y razonables, ya que de la historia (tradicion) es que sale la escritura, no al reves.
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Como ellos recibieron las enseñanzas de los apóstoles ya sea verbal o escrita
Pero las qué no fueron escritas fueron formando como una tradición o historia
Y como ellos las recibieron de parte de los apóstoles es infalible
No puede existir errores
saludos
O sea en resumidas cuentas creo yo que es lo que me quiere tu de sir
Como ellos recibieron las enseñanzas de los apóstoles ya sea verbal o escrita
Pero las qué no fueron escritas fueron formando como una tradición o historia
Y como ellos las recibieron de parte de los apóstoles es infalible
No puede existir errores
saludos
Re: Atributos Dados a María y que corresponden Solo a Dios
Exactamente, y cada doctrina desde los Apostoles hasta hoy, osea desde la Iglesia Primitiva hasta hoy, ha sido porque la Iglesia en comunion ha declarado bajo la guia del Espiritu Santo que es cierta.
Exactamente, y cada doctrina desde los Apostoles hasta hoy, osea desde la Iglesia Primitiva hasta hoy, ha sido porque la Iglesia en comunion ha declarado bajo la guia del Espiritu Santo que es cierta.