LA PASION: vision catolica del sufrimiento fisico

[SOLO CRISTO]

En esta tan traida pelicula, MAria esta omnipresente, como se lo espera todo buen catolico. No hay esperanza alguna en salvacion SOLO EN CRISTO, solo en exaltar su sufrimiento y en "compartirlo" para ganarse la salvacion. Quizas es que haya habido un auge de gente que se crucifica en Paraguay para llamar la atencion y conseguir sus demandas.
El padre de MEL GIBSON niega el HOLOCAUSTO de los nazis. Ademas los catolicos que rechazan el Vaticano II, quedan prendidos en la adversidad contra los judios, ya que en este concilio hubo un giro en este sentido.
LA pelicula es una VISION PERSONAL de Gibson (un FERVOROSO CATOLICO). La fuente para su pelicula son los evangelios y otras fuentes, como la vision de 1 monja del siglo XVIII. LAs estaciones de la Semana Santa catolica estan reflejadas en la pelicula, como no podia ser menos.
El entendimiento de Cristo es influenciado por la pelicula, incluso al orar un cristiano puede facilmente pensar que Cristo fue asi, como lo muestra un actor impio.
NO TE HARAS IMAGEN DE DIOS, que es exactamente cualquier pelicula que da cara a Cristo (Dios encarnado).

Si se piensa que asi muchos se convertiran y hacer mas entendible el evangelio ¿ES QUE SE PUEDE MEJORAR LA BIBLIA?
Cristo NO FUE EL QUE MAS SUFRIO FISICAMENTE EN LA HISTORIA DE LA HUMANIDAD, por ej.: los sirios quitaban la piel a sus victimas aun vivas, la inquisicion: torturas indecibles, etc.
Lo distinto de Cristo fue que fue el Cordero del mundo. LO MAXIMO DE EL FUE LA SEPARACION DE DIOS, NO EL SUFRIMIENTO FISICO, QUE TANTO LE GUSTA A GIBSON, A ROMA Y A LOS CATOLICOS: "con mi sufrimiento fisico ayudo a ganarme el cielo, o al menos estar menos tiempo en el purgatorio".

 

[Hebba]

Re: LA PASION: vision catolica del sufrimiento fisico

`

Perdona hemano:


Yo soy católica y el dolor fisico y gratuito lo odio. No acepto ni un dolor de muelas siempre que pueda remediarlo. O sea que cuando creitiques a los católicos te agradecería que tuvieras en cuenta ciertas posibles excepciones.


con cariño

Hebba​

 

[Esousia]

Re: LA PASION: vision catolica del sufrimiento fisico

Muy bueno su aporte. De veras que le estoy dando vueltas y vueltas en mi cabeza a este asunto de la película, pero no me acaba de 'encajar'. Es que no puedo ver nada que Roma haga en lo cual no tenga su ganancia.
No hace falta la película de Gibson para que las personas se conviertan, ni tampoco hace conmover a las personas momentáneamente si no van a hacer una decisión radical por Jesucristo.

 

[Ana Munoz]

Re: LA PASION: vision catolica del sufrimiento fisico

Hola, bendiciones;

No soy fanatica a la pelicula por muchas razones, pero primordialmente porque tiene mucho contenido extrabiblico.

Ademas, lo grandioso de Jesucristo no es tanto su muerte, sino su resureccion. Ese es el aspecto maravilloso. Porque es alli, en donde nostros podemos obter salvacion, ya que el vencio la muerte.

Si, la muerte de Jesucristo fue algo crudo y cruel que no cualquiera pudiera aguantar, pero, en ese tiempo mucha gente morian crucificados, era la costumbre. Ademas, es mi opinion que el gran dolor de Jesucristo no era tanto fisico, sino por la carga de nuestros pecados que llevo en ese momento. Estaba fuera de su naturaleza.

Cuando yo voy a mi pais natal, y me como algo de la calle, me enfermo. Pero si un local come lo mismo, no le hace ni cosquillas, porque? Porque comer algo asi va contra mi naturaleza, por lo cual mi cuerpo tiene una reaccion. Aun peor para Jesucristo. Cargar el pecado humano, estaba totalmente en contra de su naturaleza, y para mi este fue el mayor sufrimiento. Tambien es mi opinion que cuando el le pidio al Padre "que pasara de el la esta copa" no se referia a la crucifixion, sino al pecado.

"solo en exaltar su sufrimiento y en "compartirlo" para ganarse la salvacion"

La salvacions e gana??? o es un regalo de Dios?

Ana

 

[Marco77]

Re: LA PASION: vision catolica del sufrimiento fisico

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Who is responsible for the death of Messiah?<o></o>

For two thousand years the Jewish people have been persecuted, murdered and exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ. Yeshua, was a Jewish Rabbi. He was born of the Jews, he died at the hands of the Romans by the Roman means of execution crucifixion. Why did this come about and why has the death of this one individual been the foremost pivotal event in human history? <o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1026 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>The "Trials" of Yeshua and the Responsibility for His Execution<o></o>

Both the Jewish and Roman trials of Yeshua are the subject of considerable debate. The Passion Story has often incited anti-Semitism throughout history. Christian Anti-Semitism has resulted from a misguided understanding of the scriptures. This misunderstanding is a good reason for the Jewish people to fear reprisals from retelling the execution of Jesus of Nazareth. As historical sources, the Gospels themselves present difficulty implicating the entire Jewish People as a nation. The trial itself was conducted outside the required norms and practice of the Jewish Legal code of the day. For example, Mark (14:53-65; followed by Matt. 26:59-68) records a formal, Jewish, "night" trial with accusations, witnesses, and a sentence. Luke records another morning hearing before the Sanhedrin (Luke 22:66-71) without formal sentencing, and John has separate appearances before Annas (at night) and Caiaphas (in the morning) who conducts an interrogation (18:12-24). All the Gospels agree that the Roman prefect, Pontius Pilate (a.d. 26-36), ordered the execution (also attested by the Roman historian Tacitus, Annals 15.44). Clarity about the legal situation is and various details are done against their own Sanhedrin Law. Jewish laws on capital trials are found in texts almost two centuries after the death of Yeshua (M. Sanh. 4-11), so it is not known whether they reflect first-century practice. By these norms the trial in Mark is not legal, since according to the Mishnah capital trials could not be held at night or on the eve of a Sabbath or feast day (M. Sanh. 4:1). The sentence of death could not be pronounced on the same day as the trial (M. Sanh. 4:1); prior examination of witnesses, as well as independent agreement of their testimony, was required (M. Sanh. 4:5; cf. Deut. 19:15-18); the charge of blasphemy required the explicit pronouncing of the divine name (M. Sanh. 7:5); and trials were to be held in the official chamber, not in the house of the high priest (M. Sanh. 11:2; cf. Mark 14:54). Also uncertain is whether the Sanhedrin had the power to execute for capital offenses during Roman occupation (see John 18:31). If so, Yeshua should have been stoned, which was the Jewish penalty for blasphemy. God in His timely planning allowed <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Rome</st1lace></st1:City> to remove Jewish rights to execution by stoning for this brief period of time. Recall that they were allowed to stone the woman caught in adultery before the death of Yeshua, and did stone Stephen as recorded in the book of Acts. This was to fulfill prophecy such as Psalm 22 indicating the Messiah would die by crucifixion . Though reconstruction of the events would involve study of all the Gospels, Mark offers some clues to the historical situation. The public reason given in the placard on the cross (Mark 15:26), recorded in all four Gospels, was that Yeshua claimed to be a king, which for the Romans was tantamount to sedition. Those crucified with Yeshua are called "revolutionary bandits". Yeshua's teaching on the kingdom, his association with marginal groups in his society, and his attacks on abuses associated with the <st1:City w:st="on">Temple</st1:City> made him suspect to both Romans and the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Jerusalem</st1lace></st1:City> aristocracy. Though some interrogation may have taken place before Jewish authorities, the Romans bear the responsibility for any formal trial. None of the Gospels mentions extensive participation by the Pharisees in the death of Yeshua, so not all Jewish leaders, and certainly not the entire mass of Jewish people at the time of Yeshua, rejected Yeshua or were responsible for his death. Ultimately, Yeshua of Nazareth claims all responsibility and is the willing Servant, the willing Suffering Servant. His entire purpose was to come to die. For God so loved the world he gave in unique and one of a kind offspring and whoever believes in Him he shall never perish, but have eternal life. All mankind have some responsibility in the death of the Messiah and the scriptures indicate it pleased the Lord to smite him. He died for the Jews and the Gentiles. Therefore all of mankind are the benefactors of His death. He came for a specific purpose.. that is to die for the sins of the world. <o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1027 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>The Gentiles (Romans) Killed the Messiah: <o></o>

He died at the hand of the Romans under a decree by the Roman Government. (By a reluctant, but guilty dictator, Pilate)<o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1028 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>The Jews implicated the Messiah: <o></o>

The Jewish "Leadership" arrested Yeshua and placed Him on an illegal trial. The High Priest Caiaphas was a puppet priest of <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Rome</st1lace></st1:City>.<o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1029 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>God wanted Jewish and Gentile involvement: Acts 4:26-27<o></o>

‘Why did the nations (Gentiles) rage,<o></o>

And the people (Jewish people) plot vain things?<o></o>

<SUP>26</SUP> The kings (<st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Rome</st1lace></st1:City>) of the earth took their stand,<o></o>

And the rulers (Jewish Leaders) were gathered together<o></o>

Against the Lord and against His Christ (Messiah).’<o></o>

<SUP>27</SUP> "For truly against Your holy Servant (Yeshua) Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together <SUP>28</SUP> to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.<o></o>

-emphasis mine<o></o>

The Romans disallowed the Jewish Right of Execution for a brief period of time. They could stone the Woman caught in Adultry, and they Stoned Stephen the first martyr. The Jewish leaders could not stone Jesus (Yeshua). (We have no law to put a man to death) Because the Romans disallowed the Jewish right to capital punishment for this brief period of time.<o></o>

Yeshua (Jesus) had to die according to scriptures. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5<o></o>

The Jewish Method of execution was stoning, not crucifixion. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Rome</st1lace></st1:City> removed the power of capital punishment from the Jewish authorities. Remember the woman caught in adultery. They were going to stone her. Remember Steven, the first martyr, he was stoned to death. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Rome</st1lace></st1:City> remove their authority to execute for a brief few years. God allowed both Jewish and Gentile involvement in the death of the Messiah. He died for both Jews and Gentiles, that is to say all mankind.<o></o>

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Yeshua clearly stated: No one takes my life, I lay it down freely!<o></o>

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. --John 10:17-18 <o></o>

<o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1031 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>It pleased God for Yeshua to be executed! Isaiah 53:10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief.<o></o>

Isaiah 53<o></o>

<SUP>1</SUP> Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
<SUP> 2</SUP>For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
<SUP> 3</SUP>He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.


<SUP> 4</SUP>Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
<SUP> 5</SUP>But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
<SUP> 6</SUP>All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


<SUP> 7</SUP>He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
<SUP> 8</SUP>He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
<SUP> 9</SUP>And they<SUP> </SUP>made His grave with the wicked--
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.


<SUP> </SUP><SUP>10</SUP>Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
<SUP> 11</SUP>He shall see the labor of His soul,and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
<SUP> 12</SUP>Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1032 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>The Torah gives great detail on the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Temple</st1lace></st1:City> services <o></o>

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life. <o></o>

For over a thousand years the sacrificial system was in place. Today the Jewish people have substituted prayer for as a means of atonement. If prayer is a substitue than why was the temple service instituted at all. More than one half of the 613 mitzvot deal with blood atonement. This makes the blood atonement and death of the Messiah Yeshua extremely benificial for the kipparoth "covering" and entering into the presence of the Eternal One. <o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1033 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>The Death of the Messiah is Clearly Foretold in the Tenach.<o></o>

Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. <o></o>

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. <o></o>

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. <o></o>

Psalm 22<o></o>

My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.
O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.3 Yet Thou art holy,
O Thou who art enthroned upon the praises of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Israel</st1lace></st1:country-region>.
In Thee our fathers trusted; They trusted, and Thou didst deliver them.
To Thee they cried out, and were delivered; In Thee they trusted, and were not disappointed.
But I am a worm, and not a man, A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
All who see me sneer at me; They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
"Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him."
Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb;
Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts.
Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb.
Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help.
Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of <st1lace w:st="on">Bashan</st1lace> have encircled me.
They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax; It is melted within me.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And Thou dost lay me in the dust of death.
For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me; They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots. But Thou, O Lord, be not far off;
O Thou my help, hasten to my assistance. Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog. Save me from the lion's mouth;
And from the horns of the wild oxen Thou dost answer me.
I will tell of Thy name to my brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise Thee.
You who fear the Lord, praise Him; All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Israel</st1lace></st1:country-region>.
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Neither has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard. <o></o>

<v:shape id=_x0000_i1034 style="WIDTH: 31.5pt; HEIGHT: 37.5pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href=\"http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/images/whitem.jpg\" src="file:///COCUME~1ManuelLOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image002.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>Implications of the Death of the Messiah<o></o>

1. Foretold in the Jewish Scriptures: :Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 <o></o>

2. Appointed by God. Isaiah 53:6,10; Acts 2:23. <o></o>

3. Necessary for the redemption of man. Luke 24:46; Ac 17:3. <o></o>

4. Acceptable, as a sacrifice to God. Matthew 20:28; Eph 5:2; 1Th 5:10. <o></o>

5. Was voluntary. Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 26:53; John 10:17,18. <o></o>

6. Was undeserved. Isaiah 53:9. <o></o>

7. Mode of Death <o></o>

a. Foretold by Christ. Matthew 20:18,19; John 12:32,33. <o></o>

b. Prefigured. Numbers 21:8; John 3:14. <o></o>

c. Ignominious. Hebrews 12:2. <o></o>

d. Accursed. Galatians 3:13. <o></o>

e. Exhibited His humility. Philipians 2:8. <o></o>

f. A stumbling block to Jewish leadership. 1Corinthians 1:23. <o></o>

g. Foolishness to Gentiles. 1Corinthians 1:18,23. <o></o>

<o></o>

8. Initiated by the Jewish Leadership. Matthew 27:22,23. <o></o>

9. Inflicted by the Gentiles. Matthew 27:26-35. <o></o>

10. In the company of malefactors. Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38. <o></o>

11. Accompanied by supernatural signs. Matthew 27:45,51-53. <o></o>

12. Emblematical of the death to sin. Romans 6:3-8; Ga 2:20. <o></o>

13. Commemorated in the ordinance of the elements of the Passover Seder and the Sacrificial Lamb. Luke 22:19,20; 1Corinthians 11:26 <o></o>

14. The Jewish people are not responsible for the Death of Yeshua (Jesus) Acts 4:26-27 <o></o>

<o></o>

Anti-Semitism is a sin. 1 Jn 2:11;1 Jn 3:11;1 Jn 4:20 <o></o>

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST2 /><ST2:GIVENNAME>Jesus</ST2:GIVENNAME> is Jewish, therefore those that hate the Jewish people hate <ST2:GIVENNAME>Jesus</ST2:GIVENNAME> . <ST2:GIVENNAME>Matt</ST2:GIVENNAME> 1 <o></o>

God loves the world so much that He sent His Son to die as an atoning sacrifice for the world's sins. <o></o>

Whosoever believes in him will have eternal life. Isa 53; <ST2:GIVENNAME>John</ST2:GIVENNAME> 3:16 <o></o>

We worship the God of Israel. <o></o>

The world owes the Jewish people a debt of gratitude for <ST2:GIVENNAME>Jesus</ST2:GIVENNAME> and the Bible. Rom 9:4-5, 15:26-27 <o></o>

We pledge to stand for and with the Jewish people when they are faced with anti-Semitism. <o></o>