El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo!!!!

20 Marzo 2012
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[h=1]Punishment (kolasis, kolazein) – Eternal or Otherwise (Matthew 25:46; Acts 4:21; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:18)[/h]Dr. Larry Perkins



Rob Bell in his recent book Love Wins refers to the use of the nounkolasis in Matthew 25:46. He argues that the cognate verb kolazo “is a term from horticulture. It refers to the pruning and trimming of the branches of a plant so that it can flourish” (91). He then interprets the phrase eis kolasin aiōnion to “mean ‘a period of pruning’ or ‘a time of trimming,’ or an intense experience of correction” (91). He offers this as the preferred alternative to the more usual translation “eternal punishment” and goes on to suggest that in this context Jesus “isn’t talking about forever as we think of forever” (92). Rather “because ‘forever’ is not really a category the biblical writers used” (92), this phrase in Matthew 25:46 does not refer “eternal punishment” people experience because they have not served Jesus.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Is Bell’s exegesis and lexical interpretation of the noun kolasis in the context of Matthew 25:46 possible? Is it probable? Does it fit what we know of the meaning and use of this noun and its cognate verb? Although the question of the fate of the unsaved does not hinge on the solution to this question, this text does have significant implications because of its location in the teaching of Jesus.
Both the noun and verb occur in Classical Greek material as well as in the materials produced within the Hellenistic Jewish community. The basic sense of the word describes the action of cutting off, maiming. The Greek Classical Dictionary edited by Liddell and Scott lists one usage in several writings of the 4th-3rd Century BC Greek author Theophrastus in which these terms describe “a drastic method of checking the growth of the almond-tree.”[SUP]2[/SUP] While other authors may employ this verb and noun similarly, the writings of Theophrastus are the only example cited for this application of the word. So it would seem that Bell is correct in saying that the noun can mean pruning. However, the fact that the noun and verb can be used in horticultural contexts to describe various methods of pruning does not determine the meaning of the noun in Matthew 25:46. Context has a large say in discerning the significance of a particular word. Nothing in Jesus’ teaching about the final judgment in Mathew 25:31-46 as far as I can see makes any comparison with pruning. Rather the context has to do with a shepherd’s action of separating sheep from goats, as a metaphor of judgment. Once segregated, the “goats” are required to “depart into eternal punishment” (apeleusontai eis kolasin aiōnion), in contrast to the “sheep” who depart “into eternal life” (zōēn aiōnion).
The noun and verb far more frequently have the sense of chastise, punish, or suffer the loss of something.[SUP]3[/SUP] It may be as J. Schneider suggests[SUP]4[/SUP] that the maiming of slaves as a punishment is the connection between the action of cutting off and punishment. Whatever the explanation, the verb and noun in their figurative sense, i.e. non-literal meaning, come to signify the activity of punishment and chastisement. In Classical Greek usage the noun kolasis describes punishment that may be to the benefit of the one being punished.[SUP]5[/SUP] However, a few centuries later the sense that such punishment is temporary and corrective is no longer dominant. For example, Josephus speaks about Herod’s experience of being on trial and in danger of being sentenced to death, but through the intervention of Hyrcanus, the high priest, he was saved “from that danger and punishment (kolaseōs),”[SUP]6[/SUP] certainly not a reference to a temporary kind of punishment.
The nature of the punishment depends upon who is the subject, the reason for the action, and who is the recipient. Context then determines these elements. When applied to a tree, the action of cutting expressed in this verb becomes pruning, as an extended meaning. However, for the meaning of “pruning” to be considered the primary sense in Matthew 25:46, in my view, the context would have to indicate this clearly in some fashion. Otherwise the more usual idea of punishment or chastisement would prevail. Given the prior directive by the Son of Man in v.41, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire (eis to pur to aiōnion) prepared for the devil and his angels,” the context certainly suggests the idea of punishment with lasting consequences and administered by a divine agent.
Within the Greek translation of the Hebrew canon, the noun kolasis only occurs in Jeremiah and Ezekiel and the cognate verb occurs once in Daniel 6:12(13). Jeremiah (18:20) complains to God about the plots being made against him. “Is evil a recompense for good that together they spoke utterances against my soul and hid their punishment (kolasin) for me?”[SUP]7[/SUP] In Ezekiel this noun represents the Hebrew nounmikshol, which means a stumbling block generated in most cases by idolatry and leading to punishment for such iniquity (14:3,4,7; 18:30; 44:12). In the Supplement to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexiconthe use of this noun in Greek Ezekiel is rendered as “that which brings about punishment, stumbling block.”[SUP]8[/SUP] In Ezekiel 14 and 18 the punishment that Yahweh brings upon Israel for its idolatry is death; in 44:12 Yahweh punishes the Levites for their participation in idolatry by never allowing them to act as priests in the new temple. It also occurs in Ezekiel 43:11 with the sense “receive their punishment” applied to Israel and describing Yahweh’s response to their sin. The prophet describes such punishment in 43:8 as “I wiped them out in my fury and by murder.” The emphasis seems to be upon a punishment that is fatal or results in permanent change, and administered by Yahweh, as divine agent, because of sinful action. The use of the verb in LXX Daniel 6:12a describes the punishment Daniel receives for praying to Yahweh, rather than to Darius, and his punishment is to be executed by confinement in a den of lions.
Schneider notes that “the idea of divine punishment and chastisement is widespread in antiquity” and that kolazein and kolasis “were fixed terms in sacral jurisprudence.”[SUP]9[/SUP] He notes in this regard inscriptions found on Phrygian and Lydian monuments dated to the imperial period (beginning with Augustus) in which god is the subject who punishes various individuals for impious acts. This perspective is similar to the sense found in other literature contemporary with the New Testament. In 2 Maccabees 4:38 the author recounts how Antiochus, the Seleucid emperor executed Andronicus, his deputy who had murdered Onias, the Jewish high priest. He concludes that “the Lord thus repaid him with the punishment (kolasin) he deserved.” According to the story in 3 Maccabees 7:10 the Jews, upon their miraculous rescue from attempts to by Ptolemy Philopator to annihilate them, were granted permission “that those from the race of the Judeans who had freely disobeyed the holy God and God’s law should obtain their deserved punishment (kolaseōs) through them,…” The result is that three hundred Jewish men are slain.
The verb and noun were used extensively in Wisdom of Solomon. The consistent theme is that Yahweh punishes those who commit idolatry by using the very animals that they worship in their idolatry as the means of their punishment. For example, in 16:1 the writer claims that “they were deservedly punished (ekolasthēsan) through similar creatures” because “they worship the most detestable animals” (15:18). God uses his creation “for punishment (kolasin) against the unrighteous” (16:24). In the case of “the impious and their impiety” the writer is sure that “what was done will be punished (kolasthēsetai) together with the one who did it” (14:10) and this is said in relationship to idolatry. He is also concerned that such punishments might lead people to accuse God of being unjust and so states that no king or prince can “look you in the face concerning those whom you have punished (ekolasas). But being righteous, you manage all things righteously considering it alien to your power to condemn anyone who does not deserve to be punished (kolasthēnai)” (12:14-15). Note in particular that God exercises appropriate judgment using such punishments and often they are fatal or extremely catastrophic (i.e. plagues in Egypt, including the killing of the firstborn).
Josephus, when commenting upon the various beliefs of the Pharisees, notes that they teach that “the soul of the good alone passes into another body, while the souls of the wicked suffer eternal punishments (aidiōi timōriai[SUP]10[/SUP] kolazesthai).”[SUP]11[/SUP] The term aidios means “eternal, everlasting.” Josephus himself was a Pharisee and so knew intimately their religious perspective.
Finally, a few examples from Philo, the Jewish expositor of the Pentateuch and a contemporary of Jesus. His usage of this terminology is too frequent for me to cite every case and so I focus on some of his usage in De Vita Mosis I & II. When commenting upon the plague of gnats, he describes it as “a chastisement (kolazontos) sent by God” (I.108). When God applies the plagues solely to the Egyptians, Philo observes in the case of the frogs, that it was as “though it knew how to distinguish who should be punished (kolazesthai) and who should not” (I.144). When commenting on the story of the Edomites and their refusal to allow the Israelites to pass through their territory (Numbers 20:14ff), Philo has Moses address Israel and dissuade them from seeking vengeance, because even though “some particular persons deserve to be punished (kolasteoi)” Israel may not be the right party to exact such punishment” (I.244). Philo comments on the contents of the books that Moses wrote and says that in these writings he describes how “the impious were chastised (kolazesthai) with the said punishments (timōriais)[SUP]12[/SUP]” (II.57), as part of a larger motif which demonstrates “the punishment (kolaseōs) of the impious” and “the honouring of the just” (II.47). One other example occurs in Philo’s commentary on the story of the man who violates the Sabbath command (Numbers 15:32-36). Some Israelites arrested the man but did not execute him on the spot lest they take “upon themselves the ruler’s duty of punishment (kolazein).” So they arraigned him before Moses who, after consulting Yahweh, declared that the man should die. This becomes another example of the “punishment (timōrias) of the impious” (II. 214-29). These examples define punishment that results from sinful action and originating primarily with a divine agent. The punishments often are drastic and deadly. The punishment of evildoers is the responsibility of rulers who act for justice under God’s direction.
In the New Testament the verb occurs in Acts 4:21 and 2 Peter 2:9, while the noun is used in 1 John 4:18.[SUP]13[/SUP] In Acts 4 the Sanhedrin has held a trial for Peter and John because they are proclaiming Jesus as Messiah and doing miracles in his name. They cannot decide what to do so they threaten the apostles and do not punish (kolasōntai) them. What punishment might have been assigned is not stated, but it could have involved execution (as happened to Stephen a few chapters later in Acts 7). In 2 Peter 2:9 the writer declares that “the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment (kolazomenous).” Between the present and the future day of judgment the impious experience God’s punishment, perhaps in the light of their final destiny. As the review of usage demonstrates, the use of this verb in 2 Peter conforms to what we have discerned. The more difficult text to fathom is John’s statement in 1 John 4:18 that “there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment (kolasin). The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” The previous verse assures that “we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.” Raymond Brown comments that “To be afraid of God is already to be suffering the punishment of a negative judgment.”[SUP]14[/SUP] Plainly John is describing a consequence of present behaviour that is serious and only avoidable in a proper love of God.
To conclude, the claim that Matthew’s use of kolasis in 25:46 describes a temporary punishment that is designed to be corrective, i.e. a kind of pruning to stimulate a more appropriate response, does not seem to be borne out by the evidence of usage in the century before and after Jesus, given the context of Jesus’ teaching in that section of Matthew’s Gospel. The noun and verb both are used to describe divine punishments meted in accord with God’s judicial sense and in response to human impiety, both in this life and in the life to come. The usage in Wisdom of Solomon, Philo and Josephus is particularly telling, along with the Phrygian and Lydian inscriptions, I would suggest. Further the context of Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment scene in which a divine figure, the Son of Man, from his “throne of glory” delivers divine justice to the righteous and the sinful. This context suits well the employment of kolasis in v.46. Lastly, the event described by Jesus seems rather climactic. Once the judgment is rendered, the outcomes proceed without any sense of re-ordering in the future. This may be an argument from silence, but it does recognize that Jesus in this story gives us no hint at future reversal of the judgment once given.
In my view Bell’s attempt to exegete this phrase and its context in Matthew 25 do not take into account the evidence of current usage in Jesus’ or Matthew’s day, nor the sense of the context and thus does not convince. Jesus’ message is clear – those who live in the category of “goats” will “go away to eternal punishment,” as harsh and difficult as this teaching might be to our ears. Thanks be to God that “goats” can become “sheep” through the atonement, grace and hope displayed in the cross and resurrection, if they will accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
[h=3]Implications:[/h]
  1. We have only touched upon one small exegetical detail in the great debate about the meaning of Hell in the teaching of Jesus. While Jesus is not fixated on the topic, he does teach its reality and warn people that gaining the world is insufficient compensation for losing one’s life in eternity. It is a tough message to communicate with care, respect, and integrity, but the Gospel is incomplete without it. How do you deal with the urgency that Jesus’ teaching expresses about this reality?
  2. There is mystery in the character and actions of God that we cannot grasp. How mercy and justice find resolution in the grotesqueness of the crucifixion is a wonder created by God’s love. Is the idea of eternal punishment inconsistent with God’s love and God’s justice? How can we say this when Jesus, the God-man himself affirms a Gospel in which eternal life and eternal death are fundamental principles?
Footnotes:

  • [SUP]1[/SUP]Bell treats the noun phrase kolasin aiōnion in a rather unusual fashion, i.e. “an aionof kolazo” in which he combines the noun aion with the first person singular indicative verb form kolazo. He then wants to interpret the adjective aiōnion in the sense of “age” or “period of time” or some idea of “intensity of experience.” He says that “the phrase (sic) ‘aion of kolazo’ gets translated as ‘eternal punishment.’” Now Matthew did not use that un-Greek ‘phrase’ and so Bell’s criticism of this usual translation becomes suspect.
  • [SUP]2[/SUP]Liddell and Scott, Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1966), 971.
  • [SUP]3[/SUP]J. Schneider, “κολάζω,” in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament Volume IIIedited by Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1965), 814, indicates the verb essentially means “maiming, cutting off.”
  • [SUP]4[/SUP]Ibid.
  • [SUP]5[/SUP]Richard Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1973), 24-26.
  • [SUP]6[/SUP]Josephus, Antiquities XV,16.
  • [SUP]7[/SUP]This is the translation provided in A New English Translation of the Septuagint. The Greek text is somewhat different from the Hebrew text in this verse. However, the sense of “punishment” for this noun seems warranted from the context.
  • [SUP]8[/SUP]H.Liddell and R. Scott, Greek-English Lexicon, 2083.
  • [SUP]9[/SUP]J. Schneider, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. III, 814.
  • [SUP]10[/SUP]The noun timōria describes retribution or vengeance.
  • [SUP]11[/SUP]Josephus, Bellum II.163.
  • [SUP]12[/SUP]Note the same conjunction of terms here as in Josephus, Bellum II.163 cited above.
  • [SUP]13[/SUP]There is a variant reading in 1 Peter 2:20 where in some manuscriptskolaphizomenoi (being beaten) is replaced by kolazomenoi (being punished). Both make sense in the passage. The advantage of the first is that it links back to Jesus’ experience of being beaten at his crucifixion. While supported by papyrus 72, the alternative reading is probably due to misreading, i.e. the omission of the two Greek letters ‘phi and iota’.
  • [SUP]14[/SUP]Raymond Brown, The Epistles of John (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1982), 562.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Punishment (kolasis, kolazein) – Eternal or Otherwise (Matthew 25:46; Acts 4:21; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:18)

Dr. Larry Perkins



Rob Bell in his recent book Love Wins refers to the use of the nounkolasis in Matthew 25:46. He argues that the cognate verb kolazo “is a term from horticulture. It refers to the pruning and trimming of the branches of a plant so that it can flourish” (91). He then interprets the phrase eis kolasin aiōnion to “mean ‘a period of pruning’ or ‘a time of trimming,’ or an intense experience of correction” (91). He offers this as the preferred alternative to the more usual translation “eternal punishment” and goes on to suggest that in this context Jesus “isn’t talking about forever as we think of forever” (92). Rather “because ‘forever’ is not really a category the biblical writers used” (92), this phrase in Matthew 25:46 does not refer “eternal punishment” people experience because they have not served Jesus.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Is Bell’s exegesis and lexical interpretation of the noun kolasis in the context of Matthew 25:46 possible? Is it probable? Does it fit what we know of the meaning and use of this noun and its cognate verb? Although the question of the fate of the unsaved does not hinge on the solution to this question, this text does have significant implications because of its location in the teaching of Jesus.
Both the noun and verb occur in Classical Greek material as well as in the materials produced within the Hellenistic Jewish community. The basic sense of the word describes the action of cutting off, maiming. The Greek Classical Dictionary edited by Liddell and Scott lists one usage in several writings of the 4th-3rd Century BC Greek author Theophrastus in which these terms describe “a drastic method of checking the growth of the almond-tree.”[SUP]2[/SUP] While other authors may employ this verb and noun similarly, the writings of Theophrastus are the only example cited for this application of the word. So it would seem that Bell is correct in saying that the noun can mean pruning. However, the fact that the noun and verb can be used in horticultural contexts to describe various methods of pruning does not determine the meaning of the noun in Matthew 25:46. Context has a large say in discerning the significance of a particular word. Nothing in Jesus’ teaching about the final judgment in Mathew 25:31-46 as far as I can see makes any comparison with pruning. Rather the context has to do with a shepherd’s action of separating sheep from goats, as a metaphor of judgment. Once segregated, the “goats” are required to “depart into eternal punishment” (apeleusontai eis kolasin aiōnion), in contrast to the “sheep” who depart “into eternal life” (zōēn aiōnion).
The noun and verb far more frequently have the sense of chastise, punish, or suffer the loss of something.[SUP]3[/SUP] It may be as J. Schneider suggests[SUP]4[/SUP] that the maiming of slaves as a punishment is the connection between the action of cutting off and punishment. Whatever the explanation, the verb and noun in their figurative sense, i.e. non-literal meaning, come to signify the activity of punishment and chastisement. In Classical Greek usage the noun kolasis describes punishment that may be to the benefit of the one being punished.[SUP]5[/SUP] However, a few centuries later the sense that such punishment is temporary and corrective is no longer dominant. For example, Josephus speaks about Herod’s experience of being on trial and in danger of being sentenced to death, but through the intervention of Hyrcanus, the high priest, he was saved “from that danger and punishment (kolaseōs),”[SUP]6[/SUP] certainly not a reference to a temporary kind of punishment.
The nature of the punishment depends upon who is the subject, the reason for the action, and who is the recipient. Context then determines these elements. When applied to a tree, the action of cutting expressed in this verb becomes pruning, as an extended meaning. However, for the meaning of “pruning” to be considered the primary sense in Matthew 25:46, in my view, the context would have to indicate this clearly in some fashion. Otherwise the more usual idea of punishment or chastisement would prevail. Given the prior directive by the Son of Man in v.41, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire (eis to pur to aiōnion) prepared for the devil and his angels,” the context certainly suggests the idea of punishment with lasting consequences and administered by a divine agent.
Within the Greek translation of the Hebrew canon, the noun kolasis only occurs in Jeremiah and Ezekiel and the cognate verb occurs once in Daniel 6:12(13). Jeremiah (18:20) complains to God about the plots being made against him. “Is evil a recompense for good that together they spoke utterances against my soul and hid their punishment (kolasin) for me?”[SUP]7[/SUP] In Ezekiel this noun represents the Hebrew nounmikshol, which means a stumbling block generated in most cases by idolatry and leading to punishment for such iniquity (14:3,4,7; 18:30; 44:12). In the Supplement to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexiconthe use of this noun in Greek Ezekiel is rendered as “that which brings about punishment, stumbling block.”[SUP]8[/SUP] In Ezekiel 14 and 18 the punishment that Yahweh brings upon Israel for its idolatry is death; in 44:12 Yahweh punishes the Levites for their participation in idolatry by never allowing them to act as priests in the new temple. It also occurs in Ezekiel 43:11 with the sense “receive their punishment” applied to Israel and describing Yahweh’s response to their sin. The prophet describes such punishment in 43:8 as “I wiped them out in my fury and by murder.” The emphasis seems to be upon a punishment that is fatal or results in permanent change, and administered by Yahweh, as divine agent, because of sinful action. The use of the verb in LXX Daniel 6:12a describes the punishment Daniel receives for praying to Yahweh, rather than to Darius, and his punishment is to be executed by confinement in a den of lions.
Schneider notes that “the idea of divine punishment and chastisement is widespread in antiquity” and that kolazein and kolasis “were fixed terms in sacral jurisprudence.”[SUP]9[/SUP] He notes in this regard inscriptions found on Phrygian and Lydian monuments dated to the imperial period (beginning with Augustus) in which god is the subject who punishes various individuals for impious acts. This perspective is similar to the sense found in other literature contemporary with the New Testament. In 2 Maccabees 4:38 the author recounts how Antiochus, the Seleucid emperor executed Andronicus, his deputy who had murdered Onias, the Jewish high priest. He concludes that “the Lord thus repaid him with the punishment (kolasin) he deserved.” According to the story in 3 Maccabees 7:10 the Jews, upon their miraculous rescue from attempts to by Ptolemy Philopator to annihilate them, were granted permission “that those from the race of the Judeans who had freely disobeyed the holy God and God’s law should obtain their deserved punishment (kolaseōs) through them,…” The result is that three hundred Jewish men are slain.
The verb and noun were used extensively in Wisdom of Solomon. The consistent theme is that Yahweh punishes those who commit idolatry by using the very animals that they worship in their idolatry as the means of their punishment. For example, in 16:1 the writer claims that “they were deservedly punished (ekolasthēsan) through similar creatures” because “they worship the most detestable animals” (15:18). God uses his creation “for punishment (kolasin) against the unrighteous” (16:24). In the case of “the impious and their impiety” the writer is sure that “what was done will be punished (kolasthēsetai) together with the one who did it” (14:10) and this is said in relationship to idolatry. He is also concerned that such punishments might lead people to accuse God of being unjust and so states that no king or prince can “look you in the face concerning those whom you have punished (ekolasas). But being righteous, you manage all things righteously considering it alien to your power to condemn anyone who does not deserve to be punished (kolasthēnai)” (12:14-15). Note in particular that God exercises appropriate judgment using such punishments and often they are fatal or extremely catastrophic (i.e. plagues in Egypt, including the killing of the firstborn).
Josephus, when commenting upon the various beliefs of the Pharisees, notes that they teach that “the soul of the good alone passes into another body, while the souls of the wicked suffer eternal punishments (aidiōi timōriai[SUP]10[/SUP] kolazesthai).”[SUP]11[/SUP] The term aidios means “eternal, everlasting.” Josephus himself was a Pharisee and so knew intimately their religious perspective.
Finally, a few examples from Philo, the Jewish expositor of the Pentateuch and a contemporary of Jesus. His usage of this terminology is too frequent for me to cite every case and so I focus on some of his usage in De Vita Mosis I & II. When commenting upon the plague of gnats, he describes it as “a chastisement (kolazontos) sent by God” (I.108). When God applies the plagues solely to the Egyptians, Philo observes in the case of the frogs, that it was as “though it knew how to distinguish who should be punished (kolazesthai) and who should not” (I.144). When commenting on the story of the Edomites and their refusal to allow the Israelites to pass through their territory (Numbers 20:14ff), Philo has Moses address Israel and dissuade them from seeking vengeance, because even though “some particular persons deserve to be punished (kolasteoi)” Israel may not be the right party to exact such punishment” (I.244). Philo comments on the contents of the books that Moses wrote and says that in these writings he describes how “the impious were chastised (kolazesthai) with the said punishments (timōriais)[SUP]12[/SUP]” (II.57), as part of a larger motif which demonstrates “the punishment (kolaseōs) of the impious” and “the honouring of the just” (II.47). One other example occurs in Philo’s commentary on the story of the man who violates the Sabbath command (Numbers 15:32-36). Some Israelites arrested the man but did not execute him on the spot lest they take “upon themselves the ruler’s duty of punishment (kolazein).” So they arraigned him before Moses who, after consulting Yahweh, declared that the man should die. This becomes another example of the “punishment (timōrias) of the impious” (II. 214-29). These examples define punishment that results from sinful action and originating primarily with a divine agent. The punishments often are drastic and deadly. The punishment of evildoers is the responsibility of rulers who act for justice under God’s direction.
In the New Testament the verb occurs in Acts 4:21 and 2 Peter 2:9, while the noun is used in 1 John 4:18.[SUP]13[/SUP] In Acts 4 the Sanhedrin has held a trial for Peter and John because they are proclaiming Jesus as Messiah and doing miracles in his name. They cannot decide what to do so they threaten the apostles and do not punish (kolasōntai) them. What punishment might have been assigned is not stated, but it could have involved execution (as happened to Stephen a few chapters later in Acts 7). In 2 Peter 2:9 the writer declares that “the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment (kolazomenous).” Between the present and the future day of judgment the impious experience God’s punishment, perhaps in the light of their final destiny. As the review of usage demonstrates, the use of this verb in 2 Peter conforms to what we have discerned. The more difficult text to fathom is John’s statement in 1 John 4:18 that “there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment (kolasin). The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” The previous verse assures that “we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.” Raymond Brown comments that “To be afraid of God is already to be suffering the punishment of a negative judgment.”[SUP]14[/SUP] Plainly John is describing a consequence of present behaviour that is serious and only avoidable in a proper love of God.
To conclude, the claim that Matthew’s use of kolasis in 25:46 describes a temporary punishment that is designed to be corrective, i.e. a kind of pruning to stimulate a more appropriate response, does not seem to be borne out by the evidence of usage in the century before and after Jesus, given the context of Jesus’ teaching in that section of Matthew’s Gospel. The noun and verb both are used to describe divine punishments meted in accord with God’s judicial sense and in response to human impiety, both in this life and in the life to come. The usage in Wisdom of Solomon, Philo and Josephus is particularly telling, along with the Phrygian and Lydian inscriptions, I would suggest. Further the context of Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment scene in which a divine figure, the Son of Man, from his “throne of glory” delivers divine justice to the righteous and the sinful. This context suits well the employment of kolasis in v.46. Lastly, the event described by Jesus seems rather climactic. Once the judgment is rendered, the outcomes proceed without any sense of re-ordering in the future. This may be an argument from silence, but it does recognize that Jesus in this story gives us no hint at future reversal of the judgment once given.
In my view Bell’s attempt to exegete this phrase and its context in Matthew 25 do not take into account the evidence of current usage in Jesus’ or Matthew’s day, nor the sense of the context and thus does not convince. Jesus’ message is clear – those who live in the category of “goats” will “go away to eternal punishment,” as harsh and difficult as this teaching might be to our ears. Thanks be to God that “goats” can become “sheep” through the atonement, grace and hope displayed in the cross and resurrection, if they will accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
Implications:


  1. We have only touched upon one small exegetical detail in the great debate about the meaning of Hell in the teaching of Jesus. While Jesus is not fixated on the topic, he does teach its reality and warn people that gaining the world is insufficient compensation for losing one’s life in eternity. It is a tough message to communicate with care, respect, and integrity, but the Gospel is incomplete without it. How do you deal with the urgency that Jesus’ teaching expresses about this reality?
  2. There is mystery in the character and actions of God that we cannot grasp. How mercy and justice find resolution in the grotesqueness of the crucifixion is a wonder created by God’s love. Is the idea of eternal punishment inconsistent with God’s love and God’s justice? How can we say this when Jesus, the God-man himself affirms a Gospel in which eternal life and eternal death are fundamental principles?
Footnotes:

  • [SUP]1[/SUP]Bell treats the noun phrase kolasin aiōnion in a rather unusual fashion, i.e. “an aionof kolazo” in which he combines the noun aion with the first person singular indicative verb form kolazo. He then wants to interpret the adjective aiōnion in the sense of “age” or “period of time” or some idea of “intensity of experience.” He says that “the phrase (sic) ‘aion of kolazo’ gets translated as ‘eternal punishment.’” Now Matthew did not use that un-Greek ‘phrase’ and so Bell’s criticism of this usual translation becomes suspect.
  • [SUP]2[/SUP]Liddell and Scott, Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1966), 971.
  • [SUP]3[/SUP]J. Schneider, “κολάζω,” in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament Volume IIIedited by Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1965), 814, indicates the verb essentially means “maiming, cutting off.”
  • [SUP]4[/SUP]Ibid.
  • [SUP]5[/SUP]Richard Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1973), 24-26.
  • [SUP]6[/SUP]Josephus, Antiquities XV,16.
  • [SUP]7[/SUP]This is the translation provided in A New English Translation of the Septuagint. The Greek text is somewhat different from the Hebrew text in this verse. However, the sense of “punishment” for this noun seems warranted from the context.
  • [SUP]8[/SUP]H.Liddell and R. Scott, Greek-English Lexicon, 2083.
  • [SUP]9[/SUP]J. Schneider, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. III, 814.
  • [SUP]10[/SUP]The noun timōria describes retribution or vengeance.
  • [SUP]11[/SUP]Josephus, Bellum II.163.
  • [SUP]12[/SUP]Note the same conjunction of terms here as in Josephus, Bellum II.163 cited above.
  • [SUP]13[/SUP]There is a variant reading in 1 Peter 2:20 where in some manuscriptskolaphizomenoi (being beaten) is replaced by kolazomenoi (being punished). Both make sense in the passage. The advantage of the first is that it links back to Jesus’ experience of being beaten at his crucifixion. While supported by papyrus 72, the alternative reading is probably due to misreading, i.e. the omission of the two Greek letters ‘phi and iota’.
  • [SUP]14[/SUP]Raymond Brown, The Epistles of John (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1982), 562.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo


Estimado paolo. Saludos cordiales.

Veamos esta traducción de mi traductor en línea.


Castigo ( kolasis, kolazein ) - Eterno o lo contrario (Mateo 25:46, Hechos 4:21, 2 Pedro 2:9, 1 Juan 4:18) ni el sentido del contexto y, por tanto, no convence. El mensaje de Jesús es clara - los que viven en la categoría de "cabras" se "irán al castigo eterno," tan duro y difícil, ya que esta enseñanza puede ser para nuestros oídos. Gracias a Dios que "las cabras" puede llegar a ser "ovejas" a través de la expiación, la gracia y la esperanza está representada en la cruz y la resurrección, si van a aceptar a Jesús como Señor y Salvador. ni el sentido del contexto y, por tanto, no convence. El mensaje de Jesús es clara - los que viven en la categoría de "cabras" se "irán al castigo eterno," tan duro y difícil, ya que esta enseñanza puede ser para nuestros oídos. Gracias a Dios que "las cabras" puede llegar a ser "ovejas" a través de la expiación, la gracia y la esperanza está representada en la cruz y la resurrección, si van a aceptar a Jesús como Señor y Salvador.


[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]
[SUP][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]


Consecuencias:



  1. Sólo hemos tocado un pequeño detalle exegética en el gran debate sobre el significado de infierno en la enseñanza de Jesús. Mientras que Jesús no está obsesionado con el tema, él le enseña a su realidad y advertir a la gente que la obtención del mundo es la indemnización suficiente para perder la vida en la eternidad. Se trata de un duro mensaje para comunicarse con el cuidado, respeto e integridad, pero el evangelio es incompleta sin él. ¿Cómo lidiar con la urgencia que la enseñanza de Jesús se expresa sobre esta realidad?
  2. No hay mucho misterio en el carácter y las acciones de Dios que no podemos comprender. ¿Cómo encontrar la misericordia y la justicia en la resolución de lo grotesco de la crucifixión es una maravilla creada por el amor de Dios. Es la idea de castigo eterno incompatible con el amor de Dios y la justicia de Dios? ¿Cómo podemos decir esto cuando Jesús, el Dios-hombre se afirma un Evangelio en el que la vida eterna y la muerte eterna, son principios fundamentales?

Notas al pie:


  • [SUP]1[/SUP] de Bell trata de la frase nominal aionion kolasin de una manera bastante inusual, es decir, "un aion de kolazo "en la que combina el nombre de Aioncon la primera persona del singular indicativo de forma verbal kolazo . A continuación, quiere interpretar el adjetivo aionion en el sentido de la "edad" o "período de tiempo" o una cierta idea de la "intensidad de la experiencia." Él dice que "la frase ( sic ) " aion de kolazo 'se traduce como "eterna castigo. "Ahora Mateo no hizo uso de que ONU-griega 'frase' y por lo tanto la crítica de Bell de esta traducción se convierte en sospechoso habitual.
  • [SUP]2[/SUP] Liddell y Scott, Léxico Griego-Inglés (Oxford Clarendon Press, 1966), 971.
  • [SUP]3[/SUP] J. Schneider, "κολάζω", en Diccionario Teológico del Nuevo Testamento, Volumen III, editado por Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids, MI:.. Wm B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1965), 814, indica que el verbo significa, esencialmente, "la mutilación, la corte de ".
  • [SUP]4[/SUP] Ibid.
  • [SUP]5[/SUP] Richard Trench, Sinónimos del Nuevo Testamento (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1973), 24-26.
  • [SUP]6[/SUP] Josefo, Antigüedades XV, 16.
  • [SUP]7[/SUP] Esta es la traducción que esté en una nueva traducción al Inglés de la Septuaginta . El texto griego es algo diferente del texto hebreo de este versículo. Sin embargo, el sentido de "castigo" por este nombre parece estar garantizado por el contexto.
  • [SUP]8[/SUP] H.Liddell y Scott R., Léxico Griego-Inglés , 2083.
  • [SUP]9[/SUP] J. Schneider, Diccionario Teológico del Nuevo Testamento, vol. III , 814.
  • [SUP]10[/SUP] El nombre Timoria describe retribución o venganza.
  • [SUP]11[/SUP] Josefo, Bellum II.163.
  • [SUP]12[/SUP] Tenga en cuenta la misma conjunción de los términos aquí como en Josefo, Bellum II.163 antes citada.
  • [SUP]13[/SUP] Existe una variante en la lectura 1 Pedro 2:20, donde en algunos manuscritos kolaphizomenoi (ser golpeado) se sustituye por kolazomenoi (siendo castigado). Ambos tienen sentido en el pasaje. La ventaja del primero es que la une de nuevo a la experiencia de Jesús de ser golpeado en su crucifixión. Mientras que el apoyo de papiro 72, la lectura alternativa es probablemente debido a la interpretación errónea, es decir, la omisión de los phi e iota 'las dos letras griegas.
  • [SUP]14[/SUP] Raymond Brown, Las epístolas de Juan (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1982), 562.


Respondo: ¿Te has preguntado si este castigo tiene consecuencias eternas para el pecador?

¿Perder la salvación y dejar de existir.?

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.



 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Punishment (kolasis, kolazein) – Eternal or Otherwise (Matthew 25:46; Acts 4:21; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:18)

Dr. Larry Perkins



Rob Bell in his recent book Love Wins refers to the use of the nounkolasis in Matthew 25:46. He argues that the cognate verb kolazo “is a term from horticulture. It refers to the pruning and trimming of the branches of a plant so that it can flourish” (91). He then interprets the phrase eis kolasin aiōnion to “mean ‘a period of pruning’ or ‘a time of trimming,’ or an intense experience of correction” (91). He offers this as the preferred alternative to the more usual translation “eternal punishment” and goes on to suggest that in this context Jesus “isn’t talking about forever as we think of forever” (92). Rather “because ‘forever’ is not really a category the biblical writers used” (92), this phrase in Matthew 25:46 does not refer “eternal punishment” people experience because they have not served Jesus.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Is Bell’s exegesis and lexical interpretation of the noun kolasis in the context of Matthew 25:46 possible? Is it probable? Does it fit what we know of the meaning and use of this noun and its cognate verb? Although the question of the fate of the unsaved does not hinge on the solution to this question, this text does have significant implications because of its location in the teaching of Jesus.
Both the noun and verb occur in Classical Greek material as well as in the materials produced within the Hellenistic Jewish community. The basic sense of the word describes the action of cutting off, maiming. The Greek Classical Dictionary edited by Liddell and Scott lists one usage in several writings of the 4th-3rd Century BC Greek author Theophrastus in which these terms describe “a drastic method of checking the growth of the almond-tree.”[SUP]2[/SUP] While other authors may employ this verb and noun similarly, the writings of Theophrastus are the only example cited for this application of the word. So it would seem that Bell is correct in saying that the noun can mean pruning. However, the fact that the noun and verb can be used in horticultural contexts to describe various methods of pruning does not determine the meaning of the noun in Matthew 25:46. Context has a large say in discerning the significance of a particular word. Nothing in Jesus’ teaching about the final judgment in Mathew 25:31-46 as far as I can see makes any comparison with pruning. Rather the context has to do with a shepherd’s action of separating sheep from goats, as a metaphor of judgment. Once segregated, the “goats” are required to “depart into eternal punishment” (apeleusontai eis kolasin aiōnion), in contrast to the “sheep” who depart “into eternal life” (zōēn aiōnion).
The noun and verb far more frequently have the sense of chastise, punish, or suffer the loss of something.[SUP]3[/SUP] It may be as J. Schneider suggests[SUP]4[/SUP] that the maiming of slaves as a punishment is the connection between the action of cutting off and punishment. Whatever the explanation, the verb and noun in their figurative sense, i.e. non-literal meaning, come to signify the activity of punishment and chastisement. In Classical Greek usage the noun kolasis describes punishment that may be to the benefit of the one being punished.[SUP]5[/SUP] However, a few centuries later the sense that such punishment is temporary and corrective is no longer dominant. For example, Josephus speaks about Herod’s experience of being on trial and in danger of being sentenced to death, but through the intervention of Hyrcanus, the high priest, he was saved “from that danger and punishment (kolaseōs),”[SUP]6[/SUP] certainly not a reference to a temporary kind of punishment.
The nature of the punishment depends upon who is the subject, the reason for the action, and who is the recipient. Context then determines these elements. When applied to a tree, the action of cutting expressed in this verb becomes pruning, as an extended meaning. However, for the meaning of “pruning” to be considered the primary sense in Matthew 25:46, in my view, the context would have to indicate this clearly in some fashion. Otherwise the more usual idea of punishment or chastisement would prevail. Given the prior directive by the Son of Man in v.41, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire (eis to pur to aiōnion) prepared for the devil and his angels,” the context certainly suggests the idea of punishment with lasting consequences and administered by a divine agent.
Within the Greek translation of the Hebrew canon, the noun kolasis only occurs in Jeremiah and Ezekiel and the cognate verb occurs once in Daniel 6:12(13). Jeremiah (18:20) complains to God about the plots being made against him. “Is evil a recompense for good that together they spoke utterances against my soul and hid their punishment (kolasin) for me?”[SUP]7[/SUP] In Ezekiel this noun represents the Hebrew nounmikshol, which means a stumbling block generated in most cases by idolatry and leading to punishment for such iniquity (14:3,4,7; 18:30; 44:12). In the Supplement to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexiconthe use of this noun in Greek Ezekiel is rendered as “that which brings about punishment, stumbling block.”[SUP]8[/SUP] In Ezekiel 14 and 18 the punishment that Yahweh brings upon Israel for its idolatry is death; in 44:12 Yahweh punishes the Levites for their participation in idolatry by never allowing them to act as priests in the new temple. It also occurs in Ezekiel 43:11 with the sense “receive their punishment” applied to Israel and describing Yahweh’s response to their sin. The prophet describes such punishment in 43:8 as “I wiped them out in my fury and by murder.” The emphasis seems to be upon a punishment that is fatal or results in permanent change, and administered by Yahweh, as divine agent, because of sinful action. The use of the verb in LXX Daniel 6:12a describes the punishment Daniel receives for praying to Yahweh, rather than to Darius, and his punishment is to be executed by confinement in a den of lions.
Schneider notes that “the idea of divine punishment and chastisement is widespread in antiquity” and that kolazein and kolasis “were fixed terms in sacral jurisprudence.”[SUP]9[/SUP] He notes in this regard inscriptions found on Phrygian and Lydian monuments dated to the imperial period (beginning with Augustus) in which god is the subject who punishes various individuals for impious acts. This perspective is similar to the sense found in other literature contemporary with the New Testament. In 2 Maccabees 4:38 the author recounts how Antiochus, the Seleucid emperor executed Andronicus, his deputy who had murdered Onias, the Jewish high priest. He concludes that “the Lord thus repaid him with the punishment (kolasin) he deserved.” According to the story in 3 Maccabees 7:10 the Jews, upon their miraculous rescue from attempts to by Ptolemy Philopator to annihilate them, were granted permission “that those from the race of the Judeans who had freely disobeyed the holy God and God’s law should obtain their deserved punishment (kolaseōs) through them,…” The result is that three hundred Jewish men are slain.
The verb and noun were used extensively in Wisdom of Solomon. The consistent theme is that Yahweh punishes those who commit idolatry by using the very animals that they worship in their idolatry as the means of their punishment. For example, in 16:1 the writer claims that “they were deservedly punished (ekolasthēsan) through similar creatures” because “they worship the most detestable animals” (15:18). God uses his creation “for punishment (kolasin) against the unrighteous” (16:24). In the case of “the impious and their impiety” the writer is sure that “what was done will be punished (kolasthēsetai) together with the one who did it” (14:10) and this is said in relationship to idolatry. He is also concerned that such punishments might lead people to accuse God of being unjust and so states that no king or prince can “look you in the face concerning those whom you have punished (ekolasas). But being righteous, you manage all things righteously considering it alien to your power to condemn anyone who does not deserve to be punished (kolasthēnai)” (12:14-15). Note in particular that God exercises appropriate judgment using such punishments and often they are fatal or extremely catastrophic (i.e. plagues in Egypt, including the killing of the firstborn).
Josephus, when commenting upon the various beliefs of the Pharisees, notes that they teach that “the soul of the good alone passes into another body, while the souls of the wicked suffer eternal punishments (aidiōi timōriai[SUP]10[/SUP] kolazesthai).”[SUP]11[/SUP] The term aidios means “eternal, everlasting.” Josephus himself was a Pharisee and so knew intimately their religious perspective.
Finally, a few examples from Philo, the Jewish expositor of the Pentateuch and a contemporary of Jesus. His usage of this terminology is too frequent for me to cite every case and so I focus on some of his usage in De Vita Mosis I & II. When commenting upon the plague of gnats, he describes it as “a chastisement (kolazontos) sent by God” (I.108). When God applies the plagues solely to the Egyptians, Philo observes in the case of the frogs, that it was as “though it knew how to distinguish who should be punished (kolazesthai) and who should not” (I.144). When commenting on the story of the Edomites and their refusal to allow the Israelites to pass through their territory (Numbers 20:14ff), Philo has Moses address Israel and dissuade them from seeking vengeance, because even though “some particular persons deserve to be punished (kolasteoi)” Israel may not be the right party to exact such punishment” (I.244). Philo comments on the contents of the books that Moses wrote and says that in these writings he describes how “the impious were chastised (kolazesthai) with the said punishments (timōriais)[SUP]12[/SUP]” (II.57), as part of a larger motif which demonstrates “the punishment (kolaseōs) of the impious” and “the honouring of the just” (II.47). One other example occurs in Philo’s commentary on the story of the man who violates the Sabbath command (Numbers 15:32-36). Some Israelites arrested the man but did not execute him on the spot lest they take “upon themselves the ruler’s duty of punishment (kolazein).” So they arraigned him before Moses who, after consulting Yahweh, declared that the man should die. This becomes another example of the “punishment (timōrias) of the impious” (II. 214-29). These examples define punishment that results from sinful action and originating primarily with a divine agent. The punishments often are drastic and deadly. The punishment of evildoers is the responsibility of rulers who act for justice under God’s direction.
In the New Testament the verb occurs in Acts 4:21 and 2 Peter 2:9, while the noun is used in 1 John 4:18.[SUP]13[/SUP] In Acts 4 the Sanhedrin has held a trial for Peter and John because they are proclaiming Jesus as Messiah and doing miracles in his name. They cannot decide what to do so they threaten the apostles and do not punish (kolasōntai) them. What punishment might have been assigned is not stated, but it could have involved execution (as happened to Stephen a few chapters later in Acts 7). In 2 Peter 2:9 the writer declares that “the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment (kolazomenous).” Between the present and the future day of judgment the impious experience God’s punishment, perhaps in the light of their final destiny. As the review of usage demonstrates, the use of this verb in 2 Peter conforms to what we have discerned. The more difficult text to fathom is John’s statement in 1 John 4:18 that “there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment (kolasin). The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” The previous verse assures that “we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him.” Raymond Brown comments that “To be afraid of God is already to be suffering the punishment of a negative judgment.”[SUP]14[/SUP] Plainly John is describing a consequence of present behaviour that is serious and only avoidable in a proper love of God.
To conclude, the claim that Matthew’s use of kolasis in 25:46 describes a temporary punishment that is designed to be corrective, i.e. a kind of pruning to stimulate a more appropriate response, does not seem to be borne out by the evidence of usage in the century before and after Jesus, given the context of Jesus’ teaching in that section of Matthew’s Gospel. The noun and verb both are used to describe divine punishments meted in accord with God’s judicial sense and in response to human impiety, both in this life and in the life to come. The usage in Wisdom of Solomon, Philo and Josephus is particularly telling, along with the Phrygian and Lydian inscriptions, I would suggest. Further the context of Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgment scene in which a divine figure, the Son of Man, from his “throne of glory” delivers divine justice to the righteous and the sinful. This context suits well the employment of kolasis in v.46. Lastly, the event described by Jesus seems rather climactic. Once the judgment is rendered, the outcomes proceed without any sense of re-ordering in the future. This may be an argument from silence, but it does recognize that Jesus in this story gives us no hint at future reversal of the judgment once given.
In my view Bell’s attempt to exegete this phrase and its context in Matthew 25 do not take into account the evidence of current usage in Jesus’ or Matthew’s day, nor the sense of the context and thus does not convince. Jesus’ message is clear – those who live in the category of “goats” will “go away to eternal punishment,” as harsh and difficult as this teaching might be to our ears. Thanks be to God that “goats” can become “sheep” through the atonement, grace and hope displayed in the cross and resurrection, if they will accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
Implications:


  1. We have only touched upon one small exegetical detail in the great debate about the meaning of Hell in the teaching of Jesus. While Jesus is not fixated on the topic, he does teach its reality and warn people that gaining the world is insufficient compensation for losing one’s life in eternity. It is a tough message to communicate with care, respect, and integrity, but the Gospel is incomplete without it. How do you deal with the urgency that Jesus’ teaching expresses about this reality?
  2. There is mystery in the character and actions of God that we cannot grasp. How mercy and justice find resolution in the grotesqueness of the crucifixion is a wonder created by God’s love. Is the idea of eternal punishment inconsistent with God’s love and God’s justice? How can we say this when Jesus, the God-man himself affirms a Gospel in which eternal life and eternal death are fundamental principles?
Footnotes:

  • [SUP]1[/SUP]Bell treats the noun phrase kolasin aiōnion in a rather unusual fashion, i.e. “an aionof kolazo” in which he combines the noun aion with the first person singular indicative verb form kolazo. He then wants to interpret the adjective aiōnion in the sense of “age” or “period of time” or some idea of “intensity of experience.” He says that “the phrase (sic) ‘aion of kolazo’ gets translated as ‘eternal punishment.’” Now Matthew did not use that un-Greek ‘phrase’ and so Bell’s criticism of this usual translation becomes suspect.
  • [SUP]2[/SUP]Liddell and Scott, Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1966), 971.
  • [SUP]3[/SUP]J. Schneider, “κολάζω,” in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament Volume IIIedited by Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1965), 814, indicates the verb essentially means “maiming, cutting off.”
  • [SUP]4[/SUP]Ibid.
  • [SUP]5[/SUP]Richard Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1973), 24-26.
  • [SUP]6[/SUP]Josephus, Antiquities XV,16.
  • [SUP]7[/SUP]This is the translation provided in A New English Translation of the Septuagint. The Greek text is somewhat different from the Hebrew text in this verse. However, the sense of “punishment” for this noun seems warranted from the context.
  • [SUP]8[/SUP]H.Liddell and R. Scott, Greek-English Lexicon, 2083.
  • [SUP]9[/SUP]J. Schneider, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Vol. III, 814.
  • [SUP]10[/SUP]The noun timōria describes retribution or vengeance.
  • [SUP]11[/SUP]Josephus, Bellum II.163.
  • [SUP]12[/SUP]Note the same conjunction of terms here as in Josephus, Bellum II.163 cited above.
  • [SUP]13[/SUP]There is a variant reading in 1 Peter 2:20 where in some manuscriptskolaphizomenoi (being beaten) is replaced by kolazomenoi (being punished). Both make sense in the passage. The advantage of the first is that it links back to Jesus’ experience of being beaten at his crucifixion. While supported by papyrus 72, the alternative reading is probably due to misreading, i.e. the omission of the two Greek letters ‘phi and iota’.
  • [SUP]14[/SUP]Raymond Brown, The Epistles of John (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, 1982), 562.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

¿Decias algo Gabriel?
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado paolo v. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:


¿Decias algo Gabriel?

Respondo: ¿Te has preguntado si este castigo tiene consecuencias eternas para el pecador?


¿Perder la salvación y dejar de existir.?

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.

 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

NO SE HABLA DE CONSECUENCIAS ETERNAS, PORQUE SU ANTITESIS ES LA VIDA ETERNA. Y LA MISMA VIDA DEBE DE SER ETERNA, ASI TAMBIEN EL CASTIGO DE ALLI QUE NO DEBA TENER OTRO SIGNIFICADO QUE LE QUIERES DAR MANIPULANDO LA BIBLIA.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado paolo v. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:


NO SE HABLA DE CONSECUENCIAS ETERNAS, PORQUE SU ANTITESIS ES LA VIDA ETERNA. Y LA MISMA VIDA DEBE DE SER ETERNA, ASI TAMBIEN EL CASTIGO DE ALLI QUE NO DEBA TENER OTRO SIGNIFICADO QUE LE QUIERES DAR MANIPULANDO LA BIBLIA.

Respondo: Dios es amor y dador de vida.

Pero también es fuego consumidor.

"He aquí que todas las almas son mías; como el alma del padre, así el alma del hijo es mía; el alma que pecare, esa morirá." Ezequiel 18:4.

La Biblia es clara, de donde sacas que tiene que manipularse.

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado paolo v. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:




Respondo: Dios es amor y dador de vida.

Pero también es fuego consumidor.

"He aquí que todas las almas son mías; como el alma del padre, así el alma del hijo es mía; el alma que pecare, esa morirá." Ezequiel 18:4.

La Biblia es clara, de donde sacas que tiene que manipularse.

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.

Asi es, el alma que pecare morira, no anaiquilara sino morira. Es esa muerte eterna es decir separacionnnnnnnnnnnnnn eternaaaaaaaaaa de Dios, exclusison de la presencia de Dios.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado paolo v. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:

Asi es, el alma que pecare morira, no anaiquilara sino morira. Es esa muerte eterna es decir separacionnnnnnnnnnnnnn eternaaaaaaaaaa de Dios, exclusison de la presencia de Dios.

Respondo: La Biblia es bien clara cuando dice morirá. Dejará de existir.

¿Acaso piensas que Satanás y sus ángeles con todos los rebeldes perdidos podrán ser majaderos como tu, (que fuiste expulsado del foro reiteradamente, y que presentas estos temas que se te aclararon y los que aún no puedes digerirlos).?

“Porque la paga del pecado es la muerte” (Romanos 6:23).

El castigo del pecado, por supuesto, abarca no sólo la primera muerte, que todos experimentan como un resultado del pecado de Adán, sino también lo que la Biblia llama la segunda muerte

"Y la muerte y el Hades fueron lanzados al lago de fuego. Esta es la muerte segunda." Apocalipsis 20:14

"Pero los cobardes e incrédulos, los abominables y homicidas, los fornicarios y hechiceros, los idólatras y todos los mentirosos tendrán su parte en el lago que arde con fuego y azufre, que es la muerte segunda." Apocalipsis21:8.

Esta es la muerte final, irreversible, que experimentarán los pecadores impenitentes. Esto significa que la paga final del pecado no es el tormento eterno, sino la muerte permanente.

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Asi es, el alma que pecare morira, no anaiquilara sino morira. Es esa muerte eterna es decir separacionnnnnnnnnnnnnn eternaaaaaaaaaa de Dios, exclusison de la presencia de Dios.

Entonces PAOLO, ¿donde me dejas estos pasajes?

1era de Pedro

3:18 Porque también Cristo padeció una sola vez por los pecados, el justo por los injustos, para llevarnos a Dios, siendo a la verdad muerto en la carne, pero vivificado en espíritu;
3:19 en el cual también fue y predicó a los espíritus encarcelados,



Sera que Jesus resucito y se fue a predicar a un grupo de pandilleros llamados "Espiritus" que estaban encarcelados en alguna provincia de Israel o en algun decierto? ummmmm me estoy rascando la barbilla.

Y donde me dejas este otro...


2da de Pedro

2:4 Porque si Dios no perdonó a los ángeles que pecaron, sino que arrojándolos al infierno los entregó a prisiones de oscuridad, para ser reservados al juicio;


A que prisiones de oscuridad entonces el Apostol Pedro se referira? sera que se equivoco o interpreto mal el mensaje que le dio el Espiritu Santo?

Veamos este otro.

Apocalipsis

20:13 Y el mar entregó los muertos que había en él; y la muerte y el Hades entregaron los muertos que había en ellos; y fueron juzgados cada uno según sus obras.
20:14 Y la muerte y el Hades fueron lanzados al lago de fuego. Esta es la muerte segunda.
20:15 Y el que no se halló inscrito en el libro de la vida fue lanzado al lago de fuego.


Se habla de fuego en diversos pasajes biblicos, tanto en el Antiguo como en el primero... entonces ¿porque mensionan constantemente el fuego? ¿para que el fuego si ya estan muertos? ¿de que sirve el fuego si ya estan en un estado en que no hay razon, no hay sentimientos, no hay arrepentimiento que valga, no hay ideas, ni proyectos, ni futuro? tampoco se le haya la logica, la asociacion o comparacion de la "muerte" con el fuego... en la biblia cuando se habla de fuego se habla de aniquilacion y de sufrimiento (hay que ser realistas)

Resulta que la Palabra de Dios es muy clara desde Genesis hasta Apocalipsis... se habla de un castigo eterno y de prisiones perpetuas en el campo espiritual. Es de aclarar que es algo obvio que la persona que esta apartada de Dios o alejada "muere"... pero, para esa persona que "muere" corporeamente y esta expulsada o apartada de la presencia de Dios tambien tiene un sitio destinado que lo mencionan mucho en apocalipsis... ( A que me referire?)
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

hola a todos..

despues del juicio habra aniquilacion total ?y no el tormento eterno,y que es de Lucas 16:19 " el rico y Lazaro"
Mateo 25:46 "E iran estos al castigo eterno Y los justos a la vida eterna".

San Marcos 9:47 " Y si tu ojo te fuere ocasion de caer sacalo; mejor te es entrar en el reino de Dios con un ojo que teniendo dos ojos ser hechado al infierno. 48"donde el gusano de ellos no muere y el fuego nunca se apaga".

Apocalipsis 20:10 " Y el diablo que los engañaba fue lanzado en el lago de fuego y azufre donde esta estaba la bestia y el falso profeta ;y seran atormentados de dia y de noche por los siglos de los siglos".

Mateo 25:41 "Entonces Dira tambien a los de la izquierda: apartaos de mi malditos al fuego eterno preparado para el
diablo y sus angeles.

Unos para vida eterna otros para muerte eterna.

SALUDOS Y BENDICIONES

BUENO NO APORTE MUCHO EL TRABAJO OCUPADO MUCHO PERO INTERESANTE EL TEMA
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado paolo v. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:



Respondo: La Biblia es bien clara cuando dice morirá. Dejará de existir.

¿Acaso piensas que Satanás y sus ángeles con todos los rebeldes perdidos podrán ser majaderos como tu, (que fuiste expulsado del foro reiteradamente, y que presentas estos temas que se te aclararon y los que aún no puedes digerirlos).?

“Porque la paga del pecado es la muerte” (Romanos 6:23).

El castigo del pecado, por supuesto, abarca no sólo la primera muerte, que todos experimentan como un resultado del pecado de Adán, sino también lo que la Biblia llama la segunda muerte

"Y la muerte y el Hades fueron lanzados al lago de fuego. Esta es la muerte segunda." Apocalipsis 20:14

"Pero los cobardes e incrédulos, los abominables y homicidas, los fornicarios y hechiceros, los idólatras y todos los mentirosos tendrán su parte en el lago que arde con fuego y azufre, que es la muerte segunda." Apocalipsis21:8.

Esta es la muerte final, irreversible, que experimentarán los pecadores impenitentes. Esto significa que la paga final del pecado no es el tormento eterno, sino la muerte permanente.

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.

El cuerpo dejara de existir, pero en realidad dejara de existir como era y se vuelve en cenizas, las cenizas existen, no dejaron de existir, asi que dejar de existir tiene que ver con dejar de ser o dejar de existir como eran antes, es decir ya no seran como antes sino solo cenizas.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Entonces PAOLO, ¿donde me dejas estos pasajes?

1era de Pedro

3:18 Porque también Cristo padeció una sola vez por los pecados, el justo por los injustos, para llevarnos a Dios, siendo a la verdad muerto en la carne, pero vivificado en espíritu;
3:19 en el cual también fue y predicó a los espíritus encarcelados,



Sera que Jesus resucito y se fue a predicar a un grupo de pandilleros llamados "Espiritus" que estaban encarcelados en alguna provincia de Israel o en algun decierto? ummmmm me estoy rascando la barbilla.

Y donde me dejas este otro...


2da de Pedro

2:4 Porque si Dios no perdonó a los ángeles que pecaron, sino que arrojándolos al infierno los entregó a prisiones de oscuridad, para ser reservados al juicio;


A que prisiones de oscuridad entonces el Apostol Pedro se referira? sera que se equivoco o interpreto mal el mensaje que le dio el Espiritu Santo?

Veamos este otro.

Apocalipsis

20:13 Y el mar entregó los muertos que había en él; y la muerte y el Hades entregaron los muertos que había en ellos; y fueron juzgados cada uno según sus obras.
20:14 Y la muerte y el Hades fueron lanzados al lago de fuego. Esta es la muerte segunda.
20:15 Y el que no se halló inscrito en el libro de la vida fue lanzado al lago de fuego.


Se habla de fuego en diversos pasajes biblicos, tanto en el Antiguo como en el primero... entonces ¿porque mensionan constantemente el fuego? ¿para que el fuego si ya estan muertos? ¿de que sirve el fuego si ya estan en un estado en que no hay razon, no hay sentimientos, no hay arrepentimiento que valga, no hay ideas, ni proyectos, ni futuro? tampoco se le haya la logica, la asociacion o comparacion de la "muerte" con el fuego... en la biblia cuando se habla de fuego se habla de aniquilacion y de sufrimiento (hay que ser realistas)

Resulta que la Palabra de Dios es muy clara desde Genesis hasta Apocalipsis... se habla de un castigo eterno y de prisiones perpetuas en el campo espiritual. Es de aclarar que es algo obvio que la persona que esta apartada de Dios o alejada "muere"... pero, para esa persona que "muere" corporeamente y esta expulsada o apartada de la presencia de Dios tambien tiene un sitio destinado que lo mencionan mucho en apocalipsis... ( A que me referire?)

Para empezar la aniquilacion no existe porque nada deja de existir solamente los cuerpos se transforman en otras formas.
Asi que los pecadores como tu seran hechos cenizas, por eso dejaron de ser como eran antes, ahora eso solo se refiere al cuerpo.

¿entiendes? se refiere solo al cuerpo, nunca se dice que el alma dejara de existir, mas bien se dice que el alma recibira castigo digno e temer Lucas 12:5.

Bendiciones.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado junior. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:

hola a todos..

despues del juicio habra aniquilacion total ?y no el tormento eterno,y que es de Lucas 16:19 " el rico y Lazaro"
Mateo 25:46 "E iran estos al castigo eterno Y los justos a la vida eterna".

San Marcos 9:47 " Y si tu ojo te fuere ocasion de caer sacalo; mejor te es entrar en el reino de Dios con un ojo que teniendo dos ojos ser hechado al infierno. 48"donde el gusano de ellos no muere y el fuego nunca se apaga".

Apocalipsis 20:10 " Y el diablo que los engañaba fue lanzado en el lago de fuego y azufre donde esta estaba la bestia y el falso profeta ;y seran atormentados de dia y de noche por los siglos de los siglos".

Mateo 25:41 "Entonces Dira tambien a los de la izquierda: apartaos de mi malditos al fuego eterno preparado para el
diablo y sus angeles.

Unos para vida eterna otros para muerte eterna.

SALUDOS Y BENDICIONES

BUENO NO APORTE MUCHO EL TRABAJO OCUPADO MUCHO PERO INTERESANTE EL TEMA

Respondo:¿Piensas que un Dios de amor se va a gozar viendo sufrir a los seres humanos per secula seculorum (FOREVER AND EVER) ?

Te informo que hay otra interpretación con respecto al infierno y a la parábola del rico y Lázaro, te vas a sorprender.

Al fin de los mil años vendrá la segunda resurrección. Entonces los impíos serán resucitados, y comparecerán ante Dios para la ejecución del "juicio decretado." Así el escritor del Apocalipsis, después de haber descrito la resurrección de los justos, dice: "Los otros muertos no tornaron a vivir hasta que sean cumplidos mil años." (Apocalipsis 20: 5.) E Isaías declara, con respecto a los impíos: "Serán juntados como se juntan los presos en el calabozo, y estarán encerrados en la cárcel; y después de muchos días serán sacados al suplicio." (Isaías 24: 22.)


Los impíos reciben su recompensa en la tierra. (Proverbios 11: 31.) "Serán estopa; y aquel día que vendrá, los abrasará, ha dicho Jehová de los ejércitos." (Malaquías 4: 1.) Algunos son destruídos como en un momento, mientras otros sufren muchos días. Todos son castigados "conforme a sus hechos." Habiendo sido cargados sobre Satanás los pecados de los justos, tiene éste que sufrir no sólo por su propia rebelión, sino también por todos los pecados que hizo cometer al pueblo de Dios.

Su castigo debe ser mucho mayor que el de aquellos a quienes engañó. Después de haber perecido todos los que cayeron por sus seducciones, el diablo tiene que seguir viviendo y sufriendo. En las llamas purificadoras, quedan por fin destruídos los impíos, raíz y rama, -Satanás la raíz, sus secuaces las ramas. La penalidad completa de la ley ha sido aplicada; las exigencias de la justicia han sido satisfechas; y el cielo y la tierra al contemplarlo, proclaman la justicia de Jehová.

La obra de destrucción de Satanás ha terminado para siempre. Durante seis mil años obró a su gusto, llenando la tierra de dolor y causando penas por todo el universo. Toda la creación gimió y sufrió en angustia. Ahora las criaturas de Dios han sido libradas para siempre de su presencia y de sus 732 tentaciones. "¡Ya descansa y está en quietud toda la tierra; prorrumpen los hombres [justos] en cánticos!" (Isaías 14: 7, V.M.) Y un grito de adoración y triunfo sube de entre todo el universo leal. Se oye "como si fuese el estruendo de una gran multitud, y como si fuese el estruendo de muchas aguas, y como si fuese el estruendo de poderosos truenos, que decían: ¡Aleluya; porque reina el Señor Dios, el Todopoderoso!" (Apocalipsis 19: 6)


Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo

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Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado junior. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:



Respondo:¿Piensas que un Dios de amor se va a gozar viendo sufrir a los seres humanos per secula seculorum (FOREVER AND EVER)?

Como Dios es AMOR.... Tambien Dios es fuego CONSUMIDOR.

Hebreos 12:29 porque nuestro Dios es fuego consumidor.


Si Dios es fuego consumidor, eso no quiere decir que Dios sea un sanguinario y se goce viendo a la gente sufrir... Dios da el castigo que cada cual se merece.

Veamos algunos juicios enviados por Dios directamente.

1. Diluvio: En el diluvio muchas personas y animales sufrieron y hasta agonizaron cuando se ahogaron (a esception de la familia de Noe y los animales del arca); te digo que morir ahogado es tremendo, te lo digo por experiencia propia ya que casi muero ahogado cuando tenia 22 años.

2. Sodoma y Gomorra: Dios envio fuego y azufre a las personas de Sodoma y Gomorra... ¿alguna vez te has quemado por lo menos un dedo? la sensacion es dolorosa.

3. Faraon: Faraon y su ejercito perecieron ahogados por las aguas cuando estas se dividieron en dos para que el pueblo de Israel pudieran huir.

4. La Rebelion de Core: Core y su sequito murieron calcinados por el fuego que envio Dios y sus familias murieron tragadas por la tierra

5. La temeridad de Uza: Dios hirio de muerte a Uza (Cayo muerto) por haber tocado el Arca de Dios. 2 Samuel 6:7.

6. David censo al Pueblo: Dios envio la peste para aniquilar al pueblo de israel y tambien envio a su angel a que destruyera las ciudades.


Y eso que aun no he mencionado lo que dice Jesus respecto a los dias finales... sobre el lloro y crujir de dientes, sobre el fuego eterno; tambien no menciono lo que dicen los escritores biblicos del nuevo testamento sobre las carceles eternas.


Y ni se diga del libro del Apocalipsis... que esta llena de sentencias, juicios y lagos de fuego preparado para el diablo y sus angeles... y tambien para quienes no fueron ayados en el libro de la vida.


Dios es Amor, pero tambien Fuego consumidor... si miramos, Dios no es un verdugo despiadado ni sadico que se complace con el sufrimiento ajeno, lamentablemente todos los que han hecho niquidad y lo malo ante los ojos de Dios deben pagar por su delito.





Te informo que hay otra interpretación con respecto al infierno y a la parábola del rico y Lázaro, te vas a sorprender.

Al fin de los mil años vendrá la segunda resurrección. Entonces los impíos serán resucitados, y comparecerán ante Dios para la ejecución del "juicio decretado." Así el escritor del Apocalipsis, después de haber descrito la resurrección de los justos, dice: "Los otros muertos no tornaron a vivir hasta que sean cumplidos mil años." (Apocalipsis 20: 5.) E Isaías declara, con respecto a los impíos: "Serán juntados como se juntan los presos en el calabozo, y estarán encerrados en la cárcel; y después de muchos días serán sacados al suplicio." (Isaías 24: 22.)


Los impíos reciben su recompensa en la tierra. (Proverbios 11: 31.) "Serán estopa; y aquel día que vendrá, los abrasará, ha dicho Jehová de los ejércitos." (Malaquías 4: 1.) Algunos son destruídos como en un momento, mientras otros sufren muchos días. Todos son castigados "conforme a sus hechos." Habiendo sido cargados sobre Satanás los pecados de los justos, tiene éste que sufrir no sólo por su propia rebelión, sino también por todos los pecados que hizo cometer al pueblo de Dios.

Su castigo debe ser mucho mayor que el de aquellos a quienes engañó. Después de haber perecido todos los que cayeron por sus seducciones, el diablo tiene que seguir viviendo y sufriendo. En las llamas purificadoras, quedan por fin destruídos los impíos, raíz y rama, -Satanás la raíz, sus secuaces las ramas. La penalidad completa de la ley ha sido aplicada; las exigencias de la justicia han sido satisfechas; y el cielo y la tierra al contemplarlo, proclaman la justicia de Jehová.

La obra de destrucción de Satanás ha terminado para siempre. Durante seis mil años obró a su gusto, llenando la tierra de dolor y causando penas por todo el universo. Toda la creación gimió y sufrió en angustia. Ahora las criaturas de Dios han sido libradas para siempre de su presencia y de sus 732 tentaciones. "¡Ya descansa y está en quietud toda la tierra; prorrumpen los hombres [justos] en cánticos!" (Isaías 14: 7, V.M.) Y un grito de adoración y triunfo sube de entre todo el universo leal. Se oye "como si fuese el estruendo de una gran multitud, y como si fuese el estruendo de muchas aguas, y como si fuese el estruendo de poderosos truenos, que decían: ¡Aleluya; porque reina el Señor Dios, el Todopoderoso!" (Apocalipsis 19: 6)


Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo



Muchos prefieren creer en una linda y hermosa mentira que a una fuerte y dura verdad.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo



Dios es Amor, pero tambien Fuego consumidor... si miramos, Dios no es un verdugo despiadado ni sadico que se complace con el sufrimiento ajeno, lamentablemente todos los que han hecho niquidad y lo malo ante los ojos de Dios deben pagar por su delito.



Fuego consumidor.

Salmo 1.

"Bienaventurado el varón que no anduvo en consejo de malos,
Ni estuvo en camino de pecadores,
Ni en silla de escarnecedores se ha sentado;
Sino que en la ley de Jehová está su delicia,
Y en su ley medita de día y de noche.
Será como árbol plantado junto a corrientes de aguas,
Que da su fruto en su tiempo,
Y su hoja no cae;
Y todo lo que hace, prosperará.
No así los malos,
Que son como el tamo que arrebata el viento.
Por tanto, no se levantarán los malos en el juicio,
Ni los pecadores en la congregación de los justos.
Porque Jehová conoce el camino de los justos;
Mas la senda de los malos perecerá.
"

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Fuego consumidor.

Salmo 1.

"Bienaventurado el varón que no anduvo en consejo de malos,
Ni estuvo en camino de pecadores,
Ni en silla de escarnecedores se ha sentado;
Sino que en la ley de Jehová está su delicia,
Y en su ley medita de día y de noche.
Será como árbol plantado junto a corrientes de aguas,
Que da su fruto en su tiempo,
Y su hoja no cae;
Y todo lo que hace, prosperará.
No así los malos,
Que son como el tamo que arrebata el viento.
Por tanto, no se levantarán los malos en el juicio,
Ni los pecadores en la congregación de los justos.
Porque Jehová conoce el camino de los justos;
Mas la senda de los malos perecerá.
"

Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.


¿Estas bien seguro que "perecera" se refiere a lo que tu piensas?

Pues mira esto:

1 de Pedro

3:18 Porque también Cristo padeció una sola vez por los pecados, el justo por los injustos, para llevarnos a Dios, siendo a la verdad muerto en la carne, pero vivificado en espíritu;
3:19 en el cual también fue y predicó a los espíritus encarcelados,



No sera mas bien que "perece" el cuerpo fisico.... porque entonces a quien le fue a predicar Jesus cuando resucito; para que le fue a predicar a unos espiritus encarcelados....¿no se supone que perecieron?

Mira que no lo digo... lo dice la misma palabra de Dios
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado zionkick. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:


¿Estas bien seguro que "perecera" se refiere a lo que tu piensas?

Pues mira esto:

1 de Pedro

3:18 Porque también Cristo padeció una sola vez por los pecados, el justo por los injustos, para llevarnos a Dios, siendo a la verdad muerto en la carne, pero vivificado en espíritu;
3:19 en el cual también fue y predicó a los espíritus encarcelados,



No sera mas bien que "perece" el cuerpo fisico.... porque entonces a quien le fue a predicar Jesus cuando resucito; para que le fue a predicar a unos espiritus encarcelados....¿no se supone que perecieron?

Mira que no lo digo... lo dice la misma palabra de Dios

¿Podrías explicar como entiendes eso de predicarles a unos espíritus encarcelados?


Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.
 
Re: El tormento eterno es biblico uno de los mejores argumentos en ingles. Traducanlo

Estimado zionkick. Saludos cordiales.

Tú dices:




¿Podrías explicar como entiendes eso de predicarles a unos espíritus encarcelados?


Bendiciones.

Luego todo Israel será salvo.


Mas bien explicame tu a que se refiere esta afirmacion del Apostol Pedro...